The downside of that is the filter bubble or echo chamber effect. Question is whether Lemmy should be a fun experience for you or something to broaden your horizons a little
I’m reminded of a quote that goes something like this:
I’ve been thinking about the free exchange of ideas recently and come to the conclusion that it isn’t an open market - it’s a potluck.
Everybody brings something to the table and you’re free to pick and choose the things that you want to try, but you’re not obligated to try everything. Just because Karen put a piece of shit on the table and calls it a sandwich doesn’t mean that you have to take a bite to know that it’s shit. Similarly, we are not obligated to take white supremacists and other extremists’ ideas and seriously debate their value. They’re shit and can and should be treated as such.
The beauty of a self-curated experience is that you’re free to engage with the things that you want and can ignore the things that you don’t want to deal with. The risk of people isolating themselves is simply a part of having the freedom to choose your own experiences, the same as the real world.
Personally, one of the reasons that I’m here is because I have no choice but to deal with right-wing extremism in my daily life, and I don’t want to deal with it online as well. Reading news articles? That’s fine, but I don’t want to see chuds screaming about DEI or woke or whatever in the comments.
As if the default Lemmy experience isn’t a massive filter bubble in itself. I doubt hardly anyone here would want to federate with Twitter and Truth Social even though that would make your feed, in fact, less of an echo chamber. Hell, a huge number of inctances don’t even federate with Hexbear, Lemmygrad or Threads.
I think it’s pretty much impossible to fully get out of filter bubbles, but the only way to really get every view on everything is to be part of everything mainstream AND everything more underground. Personally, I don’t feel the need to associate with any other social media. I think toxicity differs from being exposed to a different point of view.
Reddit has had the problem for years that if you tried to make a point that slightly differed from the hive mind’s opinion, however eloquently you would put it, everyone would just pile on with their ‘akshually’ mentality and not even be open to any other viewpoint than their own.
And that’s toxicity without even mentioning folks that would just say ‘no’ followed by hateful language.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff. And OP is right, if a certain instance shows its users can’t behave or have such different views than your own, you can just make them go away and enjoy the rest of Lemmy.
I just hope those users don’t defederate from the rest of us so at some point they will have a more nuanced view of things.
Disagreeing with your perspective is easy because it’s utterly misguided. Lemmy is a paragon of inclusivity, welcoming all opinions as long as they adhere to basic decency. The platform thrives on a diverse range of ideologies, from anti-capitalist to anarchist, fostering a rich tapestry of debate and discussion. If you find it unwelcoming, maybe it’s because you can’t handle being called out for having incorrect views. ^(/s)
Damn those are actually some great thoughts imho - like https://lemm.ee/post/42493021. Fwiw I would have upvoted that one if I had seen it (I’m purposely not subscribed to showethoughts, so I only see the ones that hit All).
Likewise, I see that Lemmy has a bit of a hive mind issue. At the same time it has an enormous toxicity issue, e.g. it is hexbear’s own self-stated purpose for existence, and they refuse to limit their “dunk” sessions to those who consent to such, continuing beyond the boundaries of their own communities and instance. So we simultaneously would enjoy greater diversity of opinions while at the same time we have too much trolling happening to make that possible.
By the latter I mean that modding efforts seem one of the primary limiting factors here - e.g. I used to be a mod myself for two small gaming communities in Reddit but there’s no way I’m doing that here. Reddit was far more toxic overall, but Lemmy has greater swings of both maximum friendliness (& that overall) while also significantly worse toxicity allowed in certain corners of the Fediverse.
Anyway, one possibility is that your posts merely went out to the wrong audience - as I said, *I* would have really enjoyed the aforementioned post, and upvoted and commented in it, if I had known it existed, and surely while those of us who enjoy such may be more rare than common across the Fediverse, we aren’t entirely non-existent either?
This is where having a larger userbase, to allow such niche interests to flourish more readily, could help. Then again, we already trend more towards deeper conversations than are possible on Reddit anymore, so maybe it’s doable here?
If you end up starting a community to put such thoughts into, I would love to join it?
Bruh. It’s not an echo chamber to filter out literal Nazis and other stuff. Ain’t nobody changing their mind from “spirited” internet debate and I don’t need their garbage in my day.
Then you are missing the point because there are tons of people who disagree with you who aren’t Nazis. OP is talking about how it’s great how you can only talk with people you agree with.
You are replying to a comment thread that is about blocking Nazis, it’s completely disingenuous to act like that’s not a legit problem and that anyone is talking about anything other than actual fucking Nazis. They are real. No one said everyone they disagree with is a Nazi because that’s fucking stupid.
For example, the liberals endorsing genocide for realpolitik aren’t fascists, they’re just doing what American liberals have done since the founding of liberalism as an ideology.
I disagree with them but don’t call them Nazis and don’t think their opinions on other things shouldn’t be heard.
There are many that were defederated many months ago that aren’t even the common ones discussed. I forget some of their names but you can review the defed lists. They are beyond the pale, open open racism, calls for open violence, CP, etc. I’m not talking about some double speak, bad policy maga stuff, I’m talking about cartoons showing minorities as animals, cartoons of lynchings, etc.
I was speaking to the general practice of filtering in response to the echo chamber generalization, not the original post calling out instances. Personally I filter out porn instances because that’s not what I’m here for. The nice thing about the app I use is that I don’t see any posts from those instances but I can choose to see comments because people interacting on the posts I see are generally there for random reasons and are reacting instead of posting their whatever.
You can listen to people try to convince you that Russia’s war is justified and that Tienamen Square never happened for a while if you want, then make up your mind and block them later ;-).
I mean, personally I am not here to discuss politics or get the news. I’m here for memes and nerding out. All that real-world shit doesn’t vibe. I wanna laugh.
Exactly. I want to be able to mention the fashion lizard, the bisexual twink doctor, and his husband the suffering Irishman… And for people to understand who I’m talking about.
Then you should pick a reputable paper like The Guardian and read a chronological RSS feed. Articles that don’t support Lemmys preexisting point of view don’t even get posted here.
I feel like the term echo chamber gets thrown around a lot. Imo an echo chamber has to be highly specific. I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber for example. I would also argue against to idea of having to be weary of creating your own echo chamber online. Use social media how you like, the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
Like most things, there’s a sliding scale. I block two instances (in my client) because of the high noise-to-signal ratio, and a few individuals who I find particularly obnoxious. I’ve never blocked anyone who I thought was trying to have a good-faith argument with me, regardless of their position. But I also don’t feel obligated to stand and listen to the MAGA dipshit shouting obscenities at minorities, either. Is it an echo chamber? No more than me not watching Fox “News”.
Although, Lemmy leans strongly left, and the instances are tankie ones; there isn’t a lot of right-leaning posting IME. I think this is a particularly difficult time for reasonable conservatives because of how their party has been co-opted by fascists. The instances I’m on doesn’t do a lot of defederating, but I know just by virtue of being on Lemmy, I’m getting a left bias.
It’s an echo chamber whether you think that’s a bad thing or not, only being exposed to one type of view point is what an echo chamber is. And people probably should be exposed to opinions they disagree with, but it doesn’t have to be constantly, and it doesn’t have to be when they’re already stressed or tired, for the sake of their mental health.
I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber
Simply being something isn’t an echo chamber, you have to have a thought or opinion being shared by the group. If every person you interact with only speaks one language, and they all share that one language is the best method of communication, that’s an echo chamber.
Use social media how you like
I agree. Although it is useful to be aware of your own biases.
the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
Assuming you don’t mean literally “touch grass”, the solution is seeking out opinions/thoughts outside of your echo chamber. That doesn’t necessarily mean forcing yourself to interact with terrible communities, but being aware and understanding (but not agreeing with) them.
Although I again refer to using social media how you like is fine. No one needs to be exposed to certain communities. It’s not wrong or lazy or bad to ignore certain communities or viewpoints, especially toxic ones. However you should be aware that they exist and it can be helpful, if you choose, to understand where they come from.
As a harmless example, if you don’t like brussel sprouts and none of your friends like brussel sprouts, it may benefit you to try brussel sprouts or to seek out and talk to or read about people who like brussel sprouts. You can still at the end of the day dislike brussel sprouts. You don’t have to change your opinion. But now your opinion is more well rounded.
The downside of that is the filter bubble or echo chamber effect. Question is whether Lemmy should be a fun experience for you or something to broaden your horizons a little
Eating poisoned shit isn’t broadening your horizons.
That’s my philosophy too. I like browsing all so I heavily filter with keywords and blocking. My community block list is approaching 600
Maybe the solution is to either not restrict yourself to one platform or to be aware of the bubble.
I’m reminded of a quote that goes something like this:
The beauty of a self-curated experience is that you’re free to engage with the things that you want and can ignore the things that you don’t want to deal with. The risk of people isolating themselves is simply a part of having the freedom to choose your own experiences, the same as the real world.
Personally, one of the reasons that I’m here is because I have no choice but to deal with right-wing extremism in my daily life, and I don’t want to deal with it online as well. Reading news articles? That’s fine, but I don’t want to see chuds screaming about DEI or woke or whatever in the comments.
As if the default Lemmy experience isn’t a massive filter bubble in itself. I doubt hardly anyone here would want to federate with Twitter and Truth Social even though that would make your feed, in fact, less of an echo chamber. Hell, a huge number of inctances don’t even federate with Hexbear, Lemmygrad or Threads.
I think it’s pretty much impossible to fully get out of filter bubbles, but the only way to really get every view on everything is to be part of everything mainstream AND everything more underground. Personally, I don’t feel the need to associate with any other social media. I think toxicity differs from being exposed to a different point of view.
Reddit has had the problem for years that if you tried to make a point that slightly differed from the hive mind’s opinion, however eloquently you would put it, everyone would just pile on with their ‘akshually’ mentality and not even be open to any other viewpoint than their own.
And that’s toxicity without even mentioning folks that would just say ‘no’ followed by hateful language.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff. And OP is right, if a certain instance shows its users can’t behave or have such different views than your own, you can just make them go away and enjoy the rest of Lemmy.
I just hope those users don’t defederate from the rest of us so at some point they will have a more nuanced view of things.
My experience has been much closer to what you described reddit to be. Lemmy is extremely unwelcoming of differing opinions.
Disagreeing with your perspective is easy because it’s utterly misguided. Lemmy is a paragon of inclusivity, welcoming all opinions as long as they adhere to basic decency. The platform thrives on a diverse range of ideologies, from anti-capitalist to anarchist, fostering a rich tapestry of debate and discussion. If you find it unwelcoming, maybe it’s because you can’t handle being called out for having incorrect views. ^(/s)
You’re free to go thru my comment history, find one with lots of downvotes and point out to me where I wasn’t ‘adhering to basic decency.’
Damn those are actually some great thoughts imho - like https://lemm.ee/post/42493021. Fwiw I would have upvoted that one if I had seen it (I’m purposely not subscribed to showethoughts, so I only see the ones that hit All).
Likewise, I see that Lemmy has a bit of a hive mind issue. At the same time it has an enormous toxicity issue, e.g. it is hexbear’s own self-stated purpose for existence, and they refuse to limit their “dunk” sessions to those who consent to such, continuing beyond the boundaries of their own communities and instance. So we simultaneously would enjoy greater diversity of opinions while at the same time we have too much trolling happening to make that possible.
By the latter I mean that modding efforts seem one of the primary limiting factors here - e.g. I used to be a mod myself for two small gaming communities in Reddit but there’s no way I’m doing that here. Reddit was far more toxic overall, but Lemmy has greater swings of both maximum friendliness (& that overall) while also significantly worse toxicity allowed in certain corners of the Fediverse.
Anyway, one possibility is that your posts merely went out to the wrong audience - as I said, *I* would have really enjoyed the aforementioned post, and upvoted and commented in it, if I had known it existed, and surely while those of us who enjoy such may be more rare than common across the Fediverse, we aren’t entirely non-existent either?
This is where having a larger userbase, to allow such niche interests to flourish more readily, could help. Then again, we already trend more towards deeper conversations than are possible on Reddit anymore, so maybe it’s doable here?
If you end up starting a community to put such thoughts into, I would love to join it?
Are you one of today’s lucky 10,000 in learning what /s means?
Bruh. It’s not an echo chamber to filter out literal Nazis and other stuff. Ain’t nobody changing their mind from “spirited” internet debate and I don’t need their garbage in my day.
If you really mean “literal Nazis”, that tends to support the hypothesis that you’re not being exposed to much that contradicts your worldview.
Tell me more about how you must listen to literal Nazis on a daily basis to contradict your worldview.
And if you don’t think Lemmy has or has had to deal with literal Nazis:
Lol
You are referring to literally everyone you disagree with as a Nazi. You are an example of someone who lives in a toxic filter bubble.
No, I don’t. When I call people Nazis and fascists it’s because I know what both of those words mean, being literate.
Then you are missing the point because there are tons of people who disagree with you who aren’t Nazis. OP is talking about how it’s great how you can only talk with people you agree with.
You are replying to a comment thread that is about blocking Nazis, it’s completely disingenuous to act like that’s not a legit problem and that anyone is talking about anything other than actual fucking Nazis. They are real. No one said everyone they disagree with is a Nazi because that’s fucking stupid.
No shit, genius.
For example, the liberals endorsing genocide for realpolitik aren’t fascists, they’re just doing what American liberals have done since the founding of liberalism as an ideology.
I disagree with them but don’t call them Nazis and don’t think their opinions on other things shouldn’t be heard.
What instance is “literal Nazis”?
There are many that were defederated many months ago that aren’t even the common ones discussed. I forget some of their names but you can review the defed lists. They are beyond the pale, open open racism, calls for open violence, CP, etc. I’m not talking about some double speak, bad policy maga stuff, I’m talking about cartoons showing minorities as animals, cartoons of lynchings, etc.
The fediverse is a big place.
Edit who the fuck downvotes this
I was speaking to the general practice of filtering in response to the echo chamber generalization, not the original post calling out instances. Personally I filter out porn instances because that’s not what I’m here for. The nice thing about the app I use is that I don’t see any posts from those instances but I can choose to see comments because people interacting on the posts I see are generally there for random reasons and are reacting instead of posting their whatever.
The existence of “echo chambers” is debated by scientists. It really doesn’t matter who you hang around with, you’re going to disagree with people.
The echo chamber is overstated: the moderating effect of political interest and diverse media.
Tweeting from left to right: Is online political communication more than an echo chamber?
Echo chamber? What echo chamber? Reviewing the evidence
You can listen to people try to convince you that Russia’s war is justified and that Tienamen Square never happened for a while if you want, then make up your mind and block them later ;-).
I mean, personally I am not here to discuss politics or get the news. I’m here for memes and nerding out. All that real-world shit doesn’t vibe. I wanna laugh.
Exactly. I want to be able to mention the fashion lizard, the bisexual twink doctor, and his husband the suffering Irishman… And for people to understand who I’m talking about.
I agree, the filters here are great. I don’t mind the real world stuff but I filter your instance because I don’t want to see furry porn.
(Not trying to be snarky, your kinks are not any of my business, hence the filter. My comment is meant to be genuine.)
It doesnt necessarily mean that importent things won’t be covered. I just don’t need fox news opinion about it.
Then you should pick a reputable paper like The Guardian and read a chronological RSS feed. Articles that don’t support Lemmys preexisting point of view don’t even get posted here.
I feel like the term echo chamber gets thrown around a lot. Imo an echo chamber has to be highly specific. I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber for example. I would also argue against to idea of having to be weary of creating your own echo chamber online. Use social media how you like, the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
Like most things, there’s a sliding scale. I block two instances (in my client) because of the high noise-to-signal ratio, and a few individuals who I find particularly obnoxious. I’ve never blocked anyone who I thought was trying to have a good-faith argument with me, regardless of their position. But I also don’t feel obligated to stand and listen to the MAGA dipshit shouting obscenities at minorities, either. Is it an echo chamber? No more than me not watching Fox “News”.
Although, Lemmy leans strongly left, and the instances are tankie ones; there isn’t a lot of right-leaning posting IME. I think this is a particularly difficult time for reasonable conservatives because of how their party has been co-opted by fascists. The instances I’m on doesn’t do a lot of defederating, but I know just by virtue of being on Lemmy, I’m getting a left bias.
It’s an echo chamber whether you think that’s a bad thing or not, only being exposed to one type of view point is what an echo chamber is. And people probably should be exposed to opinions they disagree with, but it doesn’t have to be constantly, and it doesn’t have to be when they’re already stressed or tired, for the sake of their mental health.
Simply being something isn’t an echo chamber, you have to have a thought or opinion being shared by the group. If every person you interact with only speaks one language, and they all share that one language is the best method of communication, that’s an echo chamber.
I agree. Although it is useful to be aware of your own biases.
Assuming you don’t mean literally “touch grass”, the solution is seeking out opinions/thoughts outside of your echo chamber. That doesn’t necessarily mean forcing yourself to interact with terrible communities, but being aware and understanding (but not agreeing with) them.
Although I again refer to using social media how you like is fine. No one needs to be exposed to certain communities. It’s not wrong or lazy or bad to ignore certain communities or viewpoints, especially toxic ones. However you should be aware that they exist and it can be helpful, if you choose, to understand where they come from.
As a harmless example, if you don’t like brussel sprouts and none of your friends like brussel sprouts, it may benefit you to try brussel sprouts or to seek out and talk to or read about people who like brussel sprouts. You can still at the end of the day dislike brussel sprouts. You don’t have to change your opinion. But now your opinion is more well rounded.