As a biromantic asexual woman, I refer to myself as bi or pan interchangeably.
When I looked at the definitions and using my background knowledge, it appears that both sexualities love regardless of gender.
While bisexual people like men and women, I also heard that very few of them won’t date other genders. Some bi people will only date cis men and women, others only men and women in general, and some will date nonbinary people and not care.
So anyway, don’t both sexualities love regardless of gender and find everyone attractive?
Echoing other lemmings, there’s basically no difference. There js a certain niche who seem to think that pansexual is more trans inclusive, but that attitude doesn’t align with almost all bisexuals opinions on the matter, or with the history of how the bisexual community has been accepting and collaborating with the trans community since pretty much the birth of both communities.
The delightful verilybitchie, who is both bisexual and trans, has a bunch of good video on the history of bisexuality, trans stuff, and biphobia*. They are defintely worth watching!
/* it’s pretty hard to hear ‘bisexuals exclude trans people’ and not feel like that’s an example of biphobia.
I think most people use them interchangably, I call myself bi due to it being a more well-known term and the flag being prettier
The flag is the biggest reason I tend to use Bi more than Pan.
Really, not much, but there are some ideological ones sometimes. It’s a label based on personal identification. Some people say that only pansexuals are trans-inclusive when that’s not the case.
In some bisexual communities, bisexuality is defined as loving 2 or more genders. Not necessarily (but usually) men and women. Additionally, some bisexual people will date multiple genders, but not all of them (maybe they have specific preferences, whatever).
Being trans myself, I find it off-putting when pansexuals describe their sexuality as “I love men, women, and trans people” because that’s incredibly othering (to me as a binary trans person), but it seems like people say it less now than they did in 2012 when I was a baby tran. It’s weird to separate us entirely rather than viewing us as just another “type” of man or woman.
For a NB person that doesn’t apply since they’re neither a man nor a woman, but I can’t speak to how NB people feel about that phrase.
There’s a lot I don’t really like about pansexuality, which is why I don’t use the label. In my head, a transwoman is a woman, and a transman is a man, so I don’t see any difference in my love for them than my love for a cis woman or a cis man. Non-binaries fit outside that spectrum, for sure, but they’re still people with masculine and/or feminine traits, and I don’t understand why there needs to be an extra label just to include them. Shouldn’t they be included always? I guess the biggest thing that would be excluded would be people who don’t show either masculine or feminine traits. I’ve never met or seen one, so I guess I don’t know if I can be attracted to one, or if the distinction even exists.
I understand that other bisexuals may have different tastes in their partners, but we don’t have different labels for each level of masculine/feminine attraction. The bisexual who prefers femme men and women is considered just as bisexual as the one who prefers masc men and women, or the one who likes both traits equally. I just don’t understand why there’s an implicit exclusion of trans people from that attraction, such that we need a new label to add explicit inclusion.
I refer to myself as pan for two reasons. First, I believe that gender is a spectrum and there’s more than two of them. Two, to me bisexual implies equal attraction to both the masculine and feminine, and I’m less attracted to the masculine than I am to the feminine end of the scale.
Really, pansexual is being attracted to the the person, regardless of their gender identity.
Why would bisexuality imply equal attraction? Never heard that. It’s common for bi people to only be attracted to certain genders at certain times (look up the “bi-cycle”).
I’m bi and I like guys more right now. In high school, I liked girls more. It’s never been equal in my whole life.
It doesn’t, but I have had that argument thrown at me almost verbatim by someone who identified as bisexual after I mentioned that I’m less attracted to masculine than feminine.
Well, we’re all different, I guess. I’ve never heard that argument before, it doesn’t even make sense. Nothing against you for thinking it was legit though.
This is gonna bother me all day hahaha.
Do you mean that would include trans, where in bi might not include that?
Not necessarily, because I don’t separate trans from cis, though some people do. It’s really a personal preference. Pan feels like a more inclusive term to me than what bi does.
Fair 😊
First, I believe that gender is a spectrum and there’s more than two of them.
Does the word “bilingual” imply there are only two languages?
Really, pansexual is being attracted to the the person, regardless of their gender identity.
That’s also what bisexuality is about.
Ok. I didn’t argue against any of what you said, just gave my reasons for using the label that I do. I have met trans/NB exclusionary bisexuals, and that turned me off to using that label for myself. If other people use bisexual to describe themselves and mean it to encompass attraction all possible gender identities then that’s great!
There are also transphobic heterosexuals, asexuals, and gay people. Bigots sharing our orientation isn’t a reason to cede it to them.
My sister used to identify as bisexual. Now she identifies as pansexual. Why? She says she feels it more encompasses trans inclusion, as well.
Usually, most Pansexuals don’t have gender as a factor on their attraction, many Bisexuals do. Bisexual has a more ample definition.
There are people who date multiple but not all genders for example, but there’s a lot overlap between both communities. And there’s also more plurisexualities (the + in Bi+, like polisexuality and omnisexuality) who also overlap. People sometimes use a specific one to share details about they experience their sexuality.
There’s nothing wrong with using either one or all, but we need to respect everyone’s choice about how they refer to their own sexuality.
This is so far over my head - i don’t understand it. I know my comment will likely be taken as offensive or condescending, but it’s really not the intent. I am so confused by sexuality/gender discussions. I don’t understand having a label that’s inclusive or exclusive of who someone will or won’t date. Doesn’t that change based on the people you meet? If you label one way, you meet someone you find attractive, you have chemistry, and then you find that they have parts that don’t fit your label, what do you do? I guess it’s part of dating - to weed out what you’re usually not attracted to? I partnered/married young, so that aspect of dating wasn’t openly discussed in the same way- we didn’t have the common words to describe like we have today. Also, being hetero and having mostly hetero friends, i guess we didn’t spend time thinking about how our relationships were similar or different from each others. I definitely understand putting descriptions of any kind of love out there so young people know they’re not alone, but beyond that I’m lost.
Using labels for attraction and gender is a way to bring people closer together and share communities and issues. It’s not limited to dating, though obviously it helps to find people who fit each other’s attraction. “Oh you’re pan? That’s awesome, I’m gay and this is my boyfriend!” / “I heard Stacy is single, let’s hook her up with Jane, tee hee” / “Does anyone know where I can find a gender-neutral restroom at the airport?”
One woman told me that she identifies as bisexual, even though she is attracted to all genders including non-binary, because she has two “modes” of dating. When dating women, she prefers to be the pursuer. When dating men, she prefers to be the pursued. I’m not sure which way she usually went with enbies.
Practically nothing, realistically, in every day conversation. The only difference that might exist is that a person could be attracted to men, and women but not any other gender. Like maybe they don’t like non-binary, gender fluid or genderless folk. I used to say I was Bi, but I use Pan now just because I 100% don’t care about gender; everyone is sexy.
