The thing is, truth and facts exist whether we believe them or not. The sun is a star and we rotate around it on a sphere.Yet there are people who still believe in a pre-Copernican, geocentric universe.
Facts don’t matter when someone tells you something in line with what you want to hear or believe. Trump does that for his base. Nothing we say about it will change or undo the damage done.
Best we can hope for is superior numbers to the degree that the inevitable court battle after the election cannot refute.
In the short term, between now and the election, sure. Studies have shown people reject new information that contradicts an established belief. In the long term, it’s possible to get people out of cults and fascist movements. But that takes a level of time and effort we no longer have.
Best we can hope for is superior numbers to the degree that the inevitable court battle after the election cannot refute.
Yes, this is the solution. We outnumber the fascists. We need to show it at the polls and vote for the Harris-Walz ticket.
I mean, I addressed the second and third sections. The statements in the first section are tautological truisms. So I’m not sure what you mean.
I largely agree with your points, just not that there is no hope for these people on a long enough timescale. This was both preventable and is fixable. We just have to give ourselves the time to fix it.
I’m choosing to believe in people. It’s the most useful outlook I can have.
One thing that changes cultish dynamics is when someone suddenly finds themselves as part of the “out” group.
Repealing roe v wade did this for a LOT of people who didn’t realize it until after the fact; in theory, they were happy to go along with “abortion is wrong.” But then they saw how it being illegal played out in their state, where the government didn’t just want to ban in-state abortions, but get citizens to betray anyone who, with need, went out of state for one.
And then people started dying because doctors were afraid they’d be accused of performing an abortion. And IVF got caught up in it because of sperm and egg banks.
And suddenly, anyone affected by any of those things (a LOT of people) were on the outside, and the targets of ostracism and veiled threats. So they started to become aware of why, even if they don’t believe in abortions, making them illegal is even worse.
That’s the sort of thing that pushes people out of a cult.
Considering the number of accelerationists on lemmy, it’s important to point out a distinction. What’s improved this situation is the new knowledge that was gained not the fact that something bad happened to these people. These people could have learned this without having to experience it. And if they had experienced this but not understood the context behind that experience, they would have learned nothing.
If Republicans succeed in their christo-fascist dictatorship this election, a lot of us are going to learn a lot of lessons. But we won’t necessarily be able to act on those lessons. And a lot of people will be dead or continue to be in information silos. So if we manage four more years of democracy we need to use that time to educate people. That’s the only way this gets better.
The thing is, truth and facts exist whether we believe them or not. The sun is a star and we rotate around it on a sphere.Yet there are people who still believe in a pre-Copernican, geocentric universe.
Facts don’t matter when someone tells you something in line with what you want to hear or believe. Trump does that for his base. Nothing we say about it will change or undo the damage done.
Best we can hope for is superior numbers to the degree that the inevitable court battle after the election cannot refute.
In the short term, between now and the election, sure. Studies have shown people reject new information that contradicts an established belief. In the long term, it’s possible to get people out of cults and fascist movements. But that takes a level of time and effort we no longer have.
Yes, this is the solution. We outnumber the fascists. We need to show it at the polls and vote for the Harris-Walz ticket.
You either missed my point or are ignoring it. Either way, I hope you are correct.
I mean, I addressed the second and third sections. The statements in the first section are tautological truisms. So I’m not sure what you mean.
I largely agree with your points, just not that there is no hope for these people on a long enough timescale. This was both preventable and is fixable. We just have to give ourselves the time to fix it.
I’m choosing to believe in people. It’s the most useful outlook I can have.
One thing that changes cultish dynamics is when someone suddenly finds themselves as part of the “out” group.
Repealing roe v wade did this for a LOT of people who didn’t realize it until after the fact; in theory, they were happy to go along with “abortion is wrong.” But then they saw how it being illegal played out in their state, where the government didn’t just want to ban in-state abortions, but get citizens to betray anyone who, with need, went out of state for one.
And then people started dying because doctors were afraid they’d be accused of performing an abortion. And IVF got caught up in it because of sperm and egg banks.
And suddenly, anyone affected by any of those things (a LOT of people) were on the outside, and the targets of ostracism and veiled threats. So they started to become aware of why, even if they don’t believe in abortions, making them illegal is even worse.
That’s the sort of thing that pushes people out of a cult.
Considering the number of accelerationists on lemmy, it’s important to point out a distinction. What’s improved this situation is the new knowledge that was gained not the fact that something bad happened to these people. These people could have learned this without having to experience it. And if they had experienced this but not understood the context behind that experience, they would have learned nothing.
If Republicans succeed in their christo-fascist dictatorship this election, a lot of us are going to learn a lot of lessons. But we won’t necessarily be able to act on those lessons. And a lot of people will be dead or continue to be in information silos. So if we manage four more years of democracy we need to use that time to educate people. That’s the only way this gets better.