The way I look at it is basically the Bible is up for interpretation. Because if you read it literally it uh… Well it’s not good.
So if you think about it, there are actually several. Christian gods. Each one slightly different based on which verses of the Bible you interpret literally versus figuratively.
I’m guessing you don’t come from a region that has been historically Abrahamic. I’m secular myself but it’s interesting that you would throw Satan in there with the rest.
I do, and I’m not sure why what I said would make you think otherwise. The way Satan is popularly depicted today makes him indistinguishable from the “evil gods” of other religions.
Well, the way Satan is depicted in pop culture has little to do with actual christianity, and I am not sure why you felt the need to include him, despite the fact he is a very minor character in christianity, and also even in the popular depiction he is not nearly on the same level, as he was created by God, is not omnipotent, omniscient, unlike God, etc.
In the text, definitely. In the practiced religion (especially in America), not so much. And even in the text he has a much larger role than in its predecessor Judaism.
I think the pop culture versions of religions have become so deeply ingrained that they became a part of many adherent’s actual beliefs. For example, ask the average Catholic to describe hell and see how long it takes for something from Paradise Lost to pop up.
even in the popular depiction he is not nearly on the same level, as he was created by God, is not omnipotent, omniscient, unlike God, etc.
Why would that disqualify him as god-like? Polytheistic religions had gods of varying strengths, many created by other gods - the Greek pantheon is a tangle of lesser gods created by greater ones, and even Zeus came from Chronos, a Titan (which is somehow different from a god).
The whole assigning of godhood seems completely arbitrary to me. Archangels are more powerful than many full-on gods from other mythologies yet somehow don’t count, whereas even humans could have been (or will become) gods in other lives in religions such as Jainism or Mormonism.
Ok, I will concede to you that pop culture should be considered, however I would not say angels are gods.
The christian God is the supreme power, he is the monarch of the universe, so to speak, everything is under his authority. An angel is not a god, because he is a creature, not the creator, he is subordinate. He is not all-powerful, he is a servant. Within the logic of christianity there is absolute difference between god and everything else.
In greek paganism Zeus was the king of the gods. However, he was not allpowerful(there were some henoteistic tendencies, however), other gods were still powerful in their own right, and there were gods he was afraid of(in a famous passage from the Iliad that I do not quite remember, it is mentioned that he was afraid of Nyx). There was a revolution when Kronos was overthrown, as you mentioned. So those two religions are quite different.
In Jainism, the so called “gods” are a different thing altogether, no need to mention it.
I do not know much about mormons, aren’t they christians? I thought they were.
My point is that what constitutes a god differs between religions, and the Christian claim of monotheism uses a very narrow definition of god that excludes the many supernatural beings described in their religious texts.
If you use the standards of other religions, one could easily argue it’s a polytheistic religion - the Trinity, or one divinity appearing in multiple forms, is similar to other religions generally considered polytheistic.
It’s an endless debate because both sides talk past each other due to disagreeing on the basic definition of the term.
I do not know much about mormons, aren’t they christians? I thought they were.
That’s a matter of debate I’m not at all qualified to get into. They have some very out there beliefs that they understandably don’t advertise to outsiders, and that only became common knowledge with the advent of the internet.
One of which that I’m aware is: the devil was deliberately created with the knowledge of its future rebellion to test the faith of people. Another is to wait for them to repent. I don’t follow any more, but deeper into catholicism there’s a surprising amount of theory. For a religion with an organized structure, it’s not very organized.
I do know an Anglican priest-in-training who refers to God with They/Them pronouns because thinking of God in a monogender way is weird to them. This apparently isn’t particularly controversial within their mini community, although there was a big argument once when someone suggested that capitalised pronouns (such as He/Him or They/Them) technically means God uses neopronouns
Not just Catholics. Father, son, holy spirit, Satan, but just one god, amirite?
The way I look at it is basically the Bible is up for interpretation. Because if you read it literally it uh… Well it’s not good.
So if you think about it, there are actually several. Christian gods. Each one slightly different based on which verses of the Bible you interpret literally versus figuratively.
One god, multiple personalities. They didn’t have schizophrenia medication back then.
I’m guessing you don’t come from a region that has been historically Abrahamic. I’m secular myself but it’s interesting that you would throw Satan in there with the rest.
I do, and I’m not sure why what I said would make you think otherwise. The way Satan is popularly depicted today makes him indistinguishable from the “evil gods” of other religions.
Well, the way Satan is depicted in pop culture has little to do with actual christianity, and I am not sure why you felt the need to include him, despite the fact he is a very minor character in christianity, and also even in the popular depiction he is not nearly on the same level, as he was created by God, is not omnipotent, omniscient, unlike God, etc.
In the text, definitely. In the practiced religion (especially in America), not so much. And even in the text he has a much larger role than in its predecessor Judaism.
I think the pop culture versions of religions have become so deeply ingrained that they became a part of many adherent’s actual beliefs. For example, ask the average Catholic to describe hell and see how long it takes for something from Paradise Lost to pop up.
Why would that disqualify him as god-like? Polytheistic religions had gods of varying strengths, many created by other gods - the Greek pantheon is a tangle of lesser gods created by greater ones, and even Zeus came from Chronos, a Titan (which is somehow different from a god).
The whole assigning of godhood seems completely arbitrary to me. Archangels are more powerful than many full-on gods from other mythologies yet somehow don’t count, whereas even humans could have been (or will become) gods in other lives in religions such as Jainism or Mormonism.
Ok, I will concede to you that pop culture should be considered, however I would not say angels are gods.
The christian God is the supreme power, he is the monarch of the universe, so to speak, everything is under his authority. An angel is not a god, because he is a creature, not the creator, he is subordinate. He is not all-powerful, he is a servant. Within the logic of christianity there is absolute difference between god and everything else.
In greek paganism Zeus was the king of the gods. However, he was not allpowerful(there were some henoteistic tendencies, however), other gods were still powerful in their own right, and there were gods he was afraid of(in a famous passage from the Iliad that I do not quite remember, it is mentioned that he was afraid of Nyx). There was a revolution when Kronos was overthrown, as you mentioned. So those two religions are quite different.
In Jainism, the so called “gods” are a different thing altogether, no need to mention it.
I do not know much about mormons, aren’t they christians? I thought they were.
My point is that what constitutes a god differs between religions, and the Christian claim of monotheism uses a very narrow definition of god that excludes the many supernatural beings described in their religious texts.
If you use the standards of other religions, one could easily argue it’s a polytheistic religion - the Trinity, or one divinity appearing in multiple forms, is similar to other religions generally considered polytheistic.
It’s an endless debate because both sides talk past each other due to disagreeing on the basic definition of the term.
That’s a matter of debate I’m not at all qualified to get into. They have some very out there beliefs that they understandably don’t advertise to outsiders, and that only became common knowledge with the advent of the internet.
If Satan is less powerful, that means god can stop evil but chooses not to?
Satan doesn’t do evil. He merely tricks people into doing evil. Kind of like a criminal lawyer than an evil god.
Isn’t manipulating and coercing people to do evil things also evil?
Oh boy… I think there have been entire books written about this argument like , 100’s of years ago?
Google “theodicy”.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/theodicies/
I’ll give that a read later and reply after
Either that or:-
is not as powerful as advertised
has a different definition of evil
doesn’t exist
Maybe some other possibilities.
One of which that I’m aware is: the devil was deliberately created with the knowledge of its future rebellion to test the faith of people. Another is to wait for them to repent. I don’t follow any more, but deeper into catholicism there’s a surprising amount of theory. For a religion with an organized structure, it’s not very organized.
Listen to Evangelicals rant about Satan. They won’t say he’s on the same level,. but they act like he is.
Evangelicals are decidedly not Catholic
Back when I still went to (Catholic) Church I don’t remember ever hearing about Satan/the devil/Lucifer/whatever
Catholics don’t tend to obsess over him like Evengelicals, that’s for sure.
Older versions of the Bible contain references to “Hades” which was changed to “hell” in the King James Version.
True if all of your knowledge of religion comes from pop culture I can see how someone might see it that way.
Like in Family Guy or other Seth Rogan shows Satan, Jesus and “God” are all depicted as equals bickering.
Thanks for your thoughts here. They’re interesting.
Yes yes, it’s actually a fallen angel, servant of god. Same animal, different cloth.
No pop culture needed, just listen to Evangelicals. To hear them tell it, Satan is this huge powerful force that meddles in human affairs constantly.
That just sounds like evangelicals.
American christianity is basically zoroastrianism
American Christianity has very little to do with the Bible.
I mean Americans do a lot of dumb stuff. And I don’t think we need to make every thread American centric.
Maybe that one god is just plural
Imagine religious people realizing God’s pronouns are actually they/them
I do know an Anglican priest-in-training who refers to God with They/Them pronouns because thinking of God in a monogender way is weird to them. This apparently isn’t particularly controversial within their mini community, although there was a big argument once when someone suggested that capitalised pronouns (such as He/Him or They/Them) technically means God uses neopronouns
I get the joke, but I just want to clarify to readers that plurality does not imply they/them pronouns.
And a few dotzen tin gods and holy requisites.
no ; its just satan