• Soapbox@lemmy.zip
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    3 days ago

    Off season farm workers, paid in beer.

    The pyramids are proof that with enough beer you can do anything.

        • lunarul@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          I remember reading about pyramid workers going on strike to request a higher make-up quota.

      • jaybone@lemmy.zip
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        3 days ago

        Well then probably paid from the profits of slavery. That much labor could not have been cheap.

        Also I imagine they had divisions of labor. The guys who knew how to calculate the angle of the triangle or artisans who could shape the stone were probably not the same guys pushing rocks.

        • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          3 days ago

          Depending on how exactly you draw the line on ‘slavery’… maybe? Kinda?

          For the Great Pyramid, the current approximate consenus is that it was basically a corvee labor system for a large amount of the population of Egypt.

          Basically, when the farmers were all in their off season, they’d be drafted for a number of months a year to aid construction as general laborers.

          They were housed, fed, and paid for this, by the state/royal coffers.

          They were paid in material goods like foodstuffs, as currency in the way we think of it wasn’t really a thing at the time.

          And yes, they absolutely did have divisions of labor, they had basically nobility or psuedo nobilility people who could largely read and write as trained architects and engineers and mathematicians and record keepers and accountants, and had a whole slew of the craftsmen / stone mason class below them.

          So… it is forced labor, you couldn’t really opt out, but you would be compensated.

          Egypt did have roughly chattel slaves at the time, they probably participated as well, but they are estimated to be about 10% of the total population of Egypt at the time.

          (Compare this to say, 1st century AD/CE Rome, where I think the estimate is more like roughly 20-30% being slaves)

          There is also the religious component: It is likely that many of the drafted laborers viewed this as a privilege or sacred duty to construct the tomb of their living god-king, who they would have believed became essentially immortal, his spirit would be preserved for eternity, as a consequence of their work.

          So maybe think of it as an extremely intensive mission trip to go build shelters for the needy, as a rough analogue to modernity… it was some kind of good, moral, holy thing to do.

          • laz@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            3 days ago

            To: All Staff

            From: HR

            Subject: EXCITING new partnership!

            Team, we’ve been reviewing some of history’s most successful large-scale projects for inspiration, and the data is clear! The absolute best results came from teams who believed their CEO was literally a god.

            While we can’t quite arrange that, we’ve found the next best thing!

            After a productive meeting, we’ve received a special clarification directly from the Vatican! Turns out, Colossians 3:23 (“Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord”) is now considered binding corporate policy.

            So, effective immediately, hitting your quarterly goals is a direct path to salvation. Slacking off… well, let’s just say the paperwork for eternal damnation is a real hassle for everyone involved.

            Let’s get to work, saints!

            • jaybone@lemmy.zip
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              3 days ago

              Is this like a Return To Office thing, or can I continue to build the pyramid from home?

            • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              3 days ago

              I realize this is a joke, and it did elicit a good chuckle from me, but I have two technical sort of nit picks / factoids.

              As I understand these things:

              To the vast majority of Catholics, the Pope is not literally a god-king, who becomes basically a minor god oh his physical death, or just literally is onenof the greater gods made incarate… the Pope is God’s chosen representative on Earth, sort of like a more formalized version of many Old Testament prophets, who also leads God’s church.

              Also… the Amish, the Mennonites… they very much do have as part of their culture, which very much revolves around religion… that you more or less are a expected to, and by this cement that you are a good person of faith and character, that you help others by participating, often regularly, in work-gangs, to stand up at least the basics of barn or house, in what is a shockingly short amount of time, and done in a very high quality manner, with less technologically advanced tools than what is normal for others.

              Seriously, if you’ve never seen this, go look up something like Amish Barn Raising on youtube.

              They start with basically just raw materials, assemble large parts of the framing, stand em up with just ropes, set up and join the whole thing, get the outer walls and roof on and doors on, in under a a single work day.

              • sleepundertheleaves@infosec.pub
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                3 days ago

                Also… the Amish, the Mennonites… they very much do have as part of their culture, which very much revolves around religion… that you more or less are a expected to, and by this cement that you are a good person of faith and character, that you help others by participating, often regularly, in work-gangs, to stand up at least the basics of barn or house, in what is a shockingly short amount of time, and done in a very high quality manner, with less technologically advanced tools than what is normal for others.

                Yeah. And this sort of attitude is common - or was common, at least - in religions from Islam to Buddhism to Mormonism. Good people support their communities. Wealthy people give back their wealth to the community in greater measure. From those to whom much is given, much is required.

                Reddit-type atheists? The ones who post edgy memes about religion being an evolutionary dead end and useless to humanity?

                This is why they’re wrong.

                • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  2 days ago

                  I mean, I am myself an atheist, but absolutely I agree that a large number of vocal internet atheists are basically just smug assholes who get off on intellectual masturbation as a sign of moral superiority.

                  Perhaps ironically, I think this actually comes from them not fully deconsctructing their likely Christian extremist indoctrinated worldview enough… they still at their core have that deep seeded framework of ‘everyone who does not see things exactly my way is damned to hell!’

                  If you can find an atheist youtube personality or something like that, who just raised atheist/agnostic, or at least not in an extremist form of Christianity… well, they are often much less traumatized and thus much less bitter.

                  There are tons of religious people who… actually are generally kind and accepting (at least of their own grouo, but often toward outsiders as well), have problems with a hateful and exclusionary and enemy-driven version of their, or any other religion.

                  Jesus himself said many things that blatantly contradict modern American prosperity gospel, care for the sick and needy, be welcoming to the poor and to the foreigner and the homeless, think of everyone in prison as yourself in prison, and pretty much just, the rich are evil and will burn in hell for their sinful ways that lead to their wealth accumulation.

                  While I may not agree with their worldviews on a more… academic, intellectual, comprehensive, level, I try always to remain as objective as I can, and realize that to varying extents, pretty much everything is a mixed bag, with pros and cons, and an absolute pro of many non hateful versions of religion is a sense of community responsibility, a collective empathy.

                  Its just that on the intarwebz, you are much more likely to get asocial or antisocial basically recluses.

          • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            Though I’d bet that any that tried arguing against the “sacred privilegness” had some sort of severe physical punishment, perhaps against them directly or perhaps against the people of the region they were from.

            • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              2 days ago

              Probably yes?

              I do not know as much about how strict of a theocracy Egypt was in that time period, but probably fairly substantially, yes.

        • /home/pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          I’m listening to Fall of Civilizations right now on ancient egypt and the pharaoh wouldn’t allow something as important as direct labor of the pyramids to slaves. Instead, slaves would work to mine the materials but the construction would be done by paid laborers.