• Flax@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    78
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    4 days ago

    Yes. Yes they are. Also, I think a “radical Christian” would be the opposite of the KKK.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      32
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      4 days ago

      I guess I’m a radical Christian then.

      I believe Jesus taught tolerance and love, so I try to treat others with tolerance and love. And not fake love like “thoughts and prayers,” but real love, which comes with action.

          • nomy@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            10
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            4 days ago

            Pretty telling that he’s not mentioned in history books. I didn’t learn anything about him until well into adulthood.

            • mergingapples@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              edit-2
              4 days ago

              It’s always funny when I hear this, currently teaching ELA in Florida of all places. So, we all heard of the cuts to education, stop teaching certain bits of history (please fill me in on the correct term, I currently remember trump or Desantis’ buzzwords about not teaching slaves being enslaved and them being “indentured” and “learning valuable skills!” the cunt.)

              Anyway, our current section for this lesson plan is on Harriet Tubman, underground railroad, teaching the kids how to get characterization from the text and follow context clues, stuff like that. John Brown is mentioned, and in my counties’ plans is a side lesson on John Brown, what he did, which works better for me since I should be teaching history regardless. I’m telling these kids all about him, what he believes in, and how raiding that armory is what caused the federal government to come crashing down on him, all the crazy radical badass things this man did.

              Now, as I’m teaching these things, in the back of my head I’m thinking “This is surprising… Isn’t this supposed to be forbidden knowledge right know? What got cut?” Anyway, sorry for the walk of text. Slightly drunk, figured it fit here.

              Edit: Forgot to mention, I am in a VERY fucking red part of Florida. Lifted white trucks, truck nuts, punisher stickers over blue line American flags, the fuckin works. You guys should see bike week, you’d swear it was the second coming of the führer.

              • Avatar_of_Self@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                4 days ago

                I don’t know much about it but I assume it would be any texts white washing history. As an example I grew up in the south and learned about John Brown and Harriet Tubman with basically facts that can be regurgitated. Nothing diving into the day-to-day hardships and anything sounding too sympathetic.

                The rationale for the civil war was white washed to “state’s rights” and specifically “slavery wasn’t the major cause”. For 'what" state’s rights obviously due to economic ones because the north was purposely attempting to keep the south down.

                Another example was that slaves had a better life as slaves and many came back! The ‘silent racism’ of the North was even worse than the South’s violent racism because in the South they could live (in slavery) while on the North they will be destitute and invisible.

                The point being, if it’s attempting to redo that, then it is the overall message and subtext of the curriculum.

                • mergingapples@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  4 days ago

                  Oh I got to cover the “many came back” part too, in the form of the fugitive slave law. Thomas Sims for example, people just grabbed off the street in the north and dragged back south because the good ol’ boy system of the courts got some cash from detlaring any random black dude a runaway slave was also prominently taught. Again, NOT DEFENDING MY HOME STATE. Just wondering what the hell I’m missing.

              • nomy@lemmy.zip
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                4 days ago

                He might’ve been mentioned once in a class but we definitely didn’t learn much of anything. Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation was of course covered a dozen times. Granted this was decades ago in the 90s.

                For context, I’m in the Midwest and had an 8th grade history teacher/football coach tell us black people had an extra bone in their leg and it made them good at sports. That guy (a beloved teacher) was elected to the school board about 5 years ago. They’re definitely out there and they definitely have some backwards views.

      • Billegh@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        4 days ago

        I feel like “tolerance” is the wrong word here. If you instead strive for “compassion” you’d be closer to the mark.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          4 days ago

          When I think of tolerance, I think of how Jesus dealt with sinners. He didn’t go around pointing out others’ mistakes, instead he helped any who came to him. He even asked his father to forgive the people that killed him, saying they didn’t know what they were doing.

          To me, tolerance doesn’t mean ignoring people who live differently, it means quite the opposite: look past the sin and love people for the rest of who they are. Getting into compassion, that also means championing causes that you disagree with, but that help your sinner friends and don’t hurt you.

          For example, I fully support legalizing the following:

          • gay marriage - I’ll even include polyamorous marriage (assuming consent)
          • drugs - any restrictions should merely protect those who don’t use it (e.g. BAC limits for driving)
          • prostitution
          • gambling

          I’m morally opposed to each of those, but that only applies to my own actions, and others choosing to do those doesn’t hurt me. If someone else makes a different decision, that’s not my business and I’ll continue loving them for who they are. Banning those things causes harm, and legalizing them makes people happy without hurting me, so why should I oppose?

          Likewise, a homeless person addicted to drugs isn’t any less deserving of love than my local religious leader. Jesus gave two commandments:

          1. Love God
          2. Love neighbor as yourself

          He didn’t say, “love saints more than sinners,” in fact he said we shouldn’t judge others at all. So if I love my religious leader and not the homeless person, I need to repent. And I show that love through action (i.e. compassion), otherwise it’s just lip-service and I’m no better than the Pharisees that showed piety in public but were incredibly intolerant.

          Tolerance without commission isn’t love just like faith without works is dead.

          • Billegh@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            8
            ·
            4 days ago

            Sure, but also “love the sinner, hate the sin.” Compassion still feels more appropriate.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              4 days ago

              True. I just want to point out that isn’t a quote from the Bible though, it’s from Saint Augustine.

              Compassion is also appropriate, but it’s also has the ugly connotation of looking down on others, as in people looking for problems to solve instead of unconditionally loving others around them.

              People don’t want to be a project, they want to be loved and accepted. So don’t help someone because they’re a project, help because you love them and you helping is what they want (not what you think is good for them).

              • Billegh@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                4 days ago

                I wasn’t aware the quote wasn’t considered relevant today. But in the same vein, tolerance has a similar implication: acceptance without understanding.

                Compassion is usually read as acceptance despite no understanding. You don’t have to like things people do, or even the people themselves. But it’s always best to treat them as humans up front.

                • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  4 days ago

                  It’s absolutely relevant, I just pointed out it’s not a quote from Jesus or the apostles. That’s all. I believe it’s a quote Jesus would whole heartedly agree with though.

                  Compassion is usually read as acceptance despite no understanding.

                  Maybe, but like “tolerance,” I think people attach more meaning to it, twisting it to something like “feeling bad for someone.”

                  Let’s use an example of homosexuality from the perspective of your average Christian:

                  • tolerance - allow gay people in your church, but don’t do anything proactive about it
                  • compassion - feel bad for gay people, and offer to help them overcome it

                  The first largely ignores the issue, though there’s certainly some hidden prejudice. The second confronts the issue in a way that’s likely to offend (a gay person doesn’t see anything wrong, it’s the way they are).

                  My perspective is we should be more like the first than the second, but without the prejudice. Compassion should also be there, but without the preconceived notion of what’s best for that person.

                  People have twisted “tolerance” into “turning a blind eye” toward something, and I think that’s overloading the term a bit too much. Tolerance and compassion are two sides of the same coin.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          4 days ago

          Lol.

          The problem there was that they were defiling his house, disturbing people who were there to worship. Tolerance doesn’t mean putting up with bad actors, it means not getting involved in things that don’t concern you. Someone else choosing a different religion or lifestyle doesn’t concern you, and the direction to love them still applies. Someone persecuting you does impact you, so righteous anger is justified.

    • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 days ago

      Also, I think a “radical Christian” would be the opposite of the KKK.

      A millennium and a half of Christianity would say otherwise.

    • Comrade Spood@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      4 days ago

      Yeah they are reactionary christians. A radical christian would be like the Catholic Workers and Dorothy Day, or the Fasci Siciliani, or Leo Tolstoy

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      4 days ago

      Especially since radical doesn’t mean extremist, but seeking the root. You want to know what a radical Christian looks like? MLK. Arguing for equality to be achieved through peaceful means but a positive peace that includes justice.

      The kkk are just positive Christians, but unwilling to call themselves that because that would imply that they might be g*rmans and they ain’t no stinking deutschbag