I am not a teen.
Not jusr sex. Most romance can be deleted from series and movies and they would not lose any plot. It is virtually always shoehorned in.
The issue isn’t sex itself. It’s putting a sex scene in most movies meant for adult audiences. Imagine if there had to be a shootout or extended martial arts fight in every romance movie or Hollywood just wouldn’t fund it.
Use it where it makes sense, and leave it in the tool box when it doesn’t.
It’s fucking crazy to me that this is a hot take these days. I just want movies to be good. Throwing unnecessary sex scenes into a movie to drive ratings up usually does not achieve that.
I saw… killing joke? Whatever movie was made off of that. The Batman Batgirl Makeout was completely unnecessary and more than a bit disturbing.
Watching softcore porn with your friends and family is kind of undesirable.
Well yeah, I think this is universal. No one wants to watch a sex scene with their parents
I watched GoT largely with my parents. It shouldn’t be that big of a deal. That said, does it add anything? I can watch as much porn as a I want whenever I want.
But can you watch it with your parents??
Fair point I guess. If you want to watch porn with your parents, for some reason, but feel like that’s too far, I guess sex scenes is the best you can do.
I have strong feelings about this because I miss horny comedies like American Pie, and sexy thrillers like Wild Things. I miss stuff like Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Boogie Nights, Office Space, Eyes Wide Shut, True Lies. They all had sex/nudity in a way that furthered the plot, or was just plain fun. All of the criticisms I see here sadden me:
• “It doesn’t further the plot!!!”
It can absolutely be an important part of the story. See the examples above. Look at most of our ancient mythologies. On top of that I pose the question: Why does it have to further the plot?! Why does sex/nudity have to justify itself when tons of movies have gratuitous action scenes and violence that add nothing to the plot? 90% of John Wick is gratuitous violence that added nothing to the story (but I still love it). Our culture celebrates violence and we’ll watch people get tortured to death without batting an eye - but if some tits show up on screen then suddenly everyone becomes a critic analyzing whether the story REALLY needed it or not.
• “I don’t want to watch that with my kids/parents/coworkers/etc”
I agree. So don’t. Some of my favorite movies are raunchy comedies or sexy thrillers that I would never want to watch in polite company. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t exist! If art were constrained by what you wanted to display in front of your kids/parents/coworkers then our artistic & cultural landscape would be a much bleaker place.
• “We have easy access to porn, I don’t need porn in my movies!”
The fact that you only equate sex/nudity to porn reveals a problem. Kids today can’t associate sex/nudity on a screen as art, or even just fun, anymore - because in their minds sex/nudity is inextricably tied to porn. The reality is sex/nudity can be fun, dramatic, scary, or funny depending on the context. It can have a place in many kinds of stories, and comparing it to porn is like saying “we have war documentaries so we don’t need war movies.” They are completely different things!!
• “It’s usually cringey & not done well.”
By that logic you could make arguments against a lot of different genres and classic story elements. I don’t like the argument that because media these days sucks at doing something they should avoid it altogether. I think they should just do better. Movies in the 80s and 90s proved it can be done.
It’s disturbing to me that we’re culturally encouraged to find fun in violence but sex needs to be cordoned off to a containment genre and excised from mainstream art. I’m not saying it needs to be in every movie - but its been obvious for a while they’re going out of their way to avoid it, even in places where it would make sense or be fun. I want art to stop awkwardly excluding a major part of life. I want out of this “Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny” Twilight Zone multiverse that all our modern movies seem to take place in.
Sex is too important to be left to porn.
If violence doesn’t further the plot then it shouldn’t be in there either.
Nobody is saying you can’t have sexy comedies. We’re just tired of stupid shit like the mid-life threatening event romance scene. The timer on the bomb is literally counting down and they take the time to profess their love and it’s not a comedy so I’m the asshole for laughing in the theater.
It’s been ridiculous for decades and we’re tired of it.
If violence doesn’t further the plot then it shouldn’t be in there either.
A lot of action movies would be very short. My poor kung fu movies would need to be cut down to about 15 minutes. Why can’t we sometimes just have gratuitous things for the fun of it? Not everything needs to be high art.
We’re just tired of stupid shit like the mid-life threatening event romance scene. The timer on the bomb is literally counting down and they take the time to profess their love and it’s not a comedy so I’m the asshole for laughing in the theater.
I don’t think that’s an inherent problem with sex/nudity/romance, the problem is just bad filmmaking. With good writing/acting/directing/editing that exact cliche’ scenario you describe could be done in such a way as to be genuinely funny, or touching, or sexy.
Sure. Sometimes. As a specific movie made for that. Not every single show and movie producers can cram it into.
Agreed. Too often it feels like they’re just trying to check a box or fill time.
Great points! Personally for me I can do with less gorey violence. What I’m most interested in is good action sequences.
I would appreciate less violence too. It feels like since GoT they have to put some gory violence and some sex scenes into everything that is targeted at an adult audience.
The point really is not about fundamental opposition. It is about being oversaturated and hence tired of it. That is why it is annoying when it doesn’t further the plot, is done cringey or well, seems like an attempt at being porn of some sort. That stuff worked in the 80s and 90s, when people still had to rent VHS. People being addicted to porn and harming themselves with their overconsumption but being in denial about it probably also adds in here.
Oh man, I wish I could give you more than one upvote. Thank you for this well reasoned defense of sex in movies.
Statistically, there’s a lot more violence and a lot less sex for people under the age of 30. So it just kind of reflects the experiences of young people I guess.
It always hit me kind of weird that getting a sci-fi novel without sex required me to read YA
I remember watching the wolf of wall street on opening day with my parents when I was a teen.
Based on that experience, I agree, that was so awkward lol
So, way back in the day, when Borat was released, basically my whole household loved it. Then, Bruno was announced! Another movie from the same guy, excellent!
Wrong.
I took my mom to go see it. In theaters. I don’t think I can really put into words the awkwardness of sitting through that film.
Bud, imagine your parents taking you as a teen to see Species (1995) because we all thought it was just some sci-fi alien movie…
My mom did something similar and dragged 13 year old me and my two younger brothers to go see Saturday Night Fever in theaters because the commercials had dancing and music, so she thought it was a musical.
I absolutely despise media that relies on sex for the plot. It just ruins it for me. I’m also not a teen.
You would hate most Greek mythology
And some religious texts.
Why is that swan leering at me…
Greecy
It’s the stupid toxic “romance” that I want rid of. It gets so boring and tedious to watch. If it’s important to the story, then fine. But otherwise can we just normalize friendship between opposite gendered people without the need for bad relationship drama, jealousy, and normalizing the idea that when someone says no, they’re actually just “playing hard to get”.
can we just normalize friendship between opposite gendered people
Great idea. I would love a prominent TV show to have main characters of the opposite sex that are good friends and a romance is never shoehorned into it at any point.
Warehouse 13 got sooooo close.
Stargate SG1 did it as well or evem better than WH13 in my opinion. Sure Jack and Sam have some sort of romance but Teal’C, Sam, and Daniel are great friends. Atlantis did it even better with Ronon and Teyla.
Yeah, but not all the characters on any show were hooking up with each other outside of soap opera stuff. There was still an idea that two of them will end up falling in love. Why does that need to be part of the show at all? Let them all have partners outside of work.
Romance sells. Will they won’t they sells. Sex appeal sells.
It might seem cheap to you, but people do want and enjoy that kind of content.
Don’t you think people also might and want shows that don’t have those things? I really don’t think a single show where there is a mixed gender cast and no one ever ends up in bed with anyone else is going too far.
I’m sure some exist, but you’re an exception in not wanting that at all; most people want sex appeal and some romance.
Sex is an intrinsic part of being human and influences a lot of our decisions, it’s only natural for it to be in our media.
This is what I said:
Great idea. I would love a prominent TV show to have main characters of the opposite sex that are good friends and a romance is never shoehorned into it at any point.
A prominent TV show.
As in one. Singular.
So I’m not sure where you have gotten it into your head that I want no romance at all in media.
Honestly, Law & Order is good for this imo. Especially Benson and Stabler from SVU, and some of Criminal Intent with Vincent D’Onofrio and Kathryn Erba.
If you haven’t seen it. Ted Lasso is a great one for this.
I’ve had that show recommended to me before and I keep avoiding it because the subject matter doesn’t interest me, but I keep being told to watch it despite that, so it is on my long list.
I’m not sure what you think the subject matter is, but I was completely caught off guard. The main character is ostensibly in a “fish out of water” story, and that certainly creates a humorous backdrop. But the show is really all about mental health and wellbeing. People supporting each other while they learn to love themselves, deal with anxiety, trauma, and prejudice… It’s immensely beautiful, uproariously funny, and I will happily be the next person to recommend you watch it.
It’s the sports part that held absolutely no interest to me because I think sports are really, really boring. But I’m told I’ll like it anyway, and you seem to back that up.
There are plenty of shows “about” subjects that you really don’t need to have any interest in to enjoy, because the show is actually about the characters. Like Succession, is any knowledge about or passion for corporate takeovers necessary? In Ted Lasso, the sport is there to motivate the characters, and is only very occasionally on screen.
I want to believe.
Twilight really fucked up the romance genre, huh? Lol
I’ve been saying this for so long. Don’t get me wrong, some films do make sense to have sex scenes. But there are so many that either have hardcore (for TV) sex scenes or just random full nudity that makes it nearly impossible to watch with anyone other than my partner or close friends.
Like if I recommend a film or show to someone and completely forget that it had sex or even just nudity in it, it usually wasn’t important to the story. On the other hand, it may have made sense to include in the film but it was so terribly done that I promptly blocked it out.
The other issue is that it has become increasingly difficult to find any shows that either don’t include sex scenes, or don’t have ridiculous levels of violence, or whatever else is difficult for me to deal with when I just want something easy to watch that’s not a kid’s movie (although kid’s movies have their own set of issues).
Streaming services don’t even make it easy to find something to watch - they show you the same stuff over and over, or they pretend that everything is in English when they include so many other languages in the selections. If I am unable to pay attention to the captions then I would prefer to have something in English without trying a bunch of different shows first. I mean I guess this is partly (mainly?) my fault since I’ve failed to learn another language despite years of studying. But I think it just irritates me that they lie about it more than anything.
Idk I am off topic now and this has turned into a really long comment that probably doesn’t say anything that hasn’t already been said in this thread.
Maybe find less prudish friends? There’s nothing wrong with bodies.
That’s a whole other conversation, if they were depicting healthy relationships then it would be a lot less of a problem.
Nah, it’s useless filler meant to bring in a brain-dead sex deprived audience. Fuck it
So I’ve noticed that there are a lot of streaming movies and TV shows that match a lot of these patterns:
- IP is announced. Adaptation of extremely popular series with existing fanbase
- IP is billed as “adult” with “mature themes”
- Producer/Director goes on a podcast and compares IP to “Game of Thrones” a few weeks before release. Said comparison treats GoT as an ideal to aspire to instead of a cautionary tale.
- Producer/Director also insults existing fanbase for some reason
- IP is previewed to critics, gets amazing reviews
- IP comes out, and gets high streaming numbers day one
- Writing ends up being terrible
- Plot ends up being surface level, with all the subtly of the original adaptation cut out. This somehow is true now matter how basic the source material may seem
- Acting is terrible. There is at least one race swapped character, who they also butcher from a writing perspective
- VFX is terrible, and expensive scenes are cut out
- Costumes are terrible to the point where everything looks like shitty cosplay
- There’s a few violent scenes that are extremely gratuitous. VFX and writing are so bad that it’s comical instead of jarring
- There are a few random sex scenes thrown in. The sex scenes detract from the pacing of the story, and are blatantly thrown in so producers can brag about them
- Sex scenes tend to focus on the female form. If men are involved, they all are hairless and look like boy band members
- If it is a gay sex scene, it blatantly written by women and for women with an extremely limited knowledge of men as a whole
- In a few days, the Internet erupts with needlessly vitriolic discourse about said IP.
- A year post release, the show is essentially forgotten.
In that context it’s no surprise younger people don’t like sex scenes. It’s basically a canary for a low quality show and extreme toxicity.
Are you taking about Uglies? I feel like you described Uglies. I liked the adaptation, but a lot of critics didn’t.
Honestly never heard of it lol.
I think the Netflix Avatar the last air bender checks off a good amount of that list.
Oh God, please tell me they didn’t put a sex scene in a movie led by literal children?
Couldn’t tell you, I only watched the first couple of episodes because it covers a bunch of the first points of the list.
Guess we’ll never know
Oh the series is fine. I thought you were talking about the movie they just did.
I can understand that now that we have access to easy-direct–instant-proper porn that sex scenes are less appealing to the majority of people.
When I was a kid they would definitely include a sex scene just so that people looking to jerk off would be willing to watch or buy.
Yeah but, sex scenes in movies and sex in porn are hardly even the same thing. They’re so wildly different, I don’t see how one could be a replacement for the other.
True, but they can still get you (especially during Puberty) horny.
I think thats what these kids are actually complaining about. They’re used to getting turned on and immediately being able to satisfy themselves on their phones. But during a movie they’ve got to wait another hour before they can releave themselves and that’s frustrating for them.
Ahh… that’s an angle I hadn’t thought of…
When porn was less accessible they could definitely be in the realm. Now it’s more often bad soft core or HBO style taking up too much of an episode without moving the plot.
Growing up my friend had a special VHS tape he’d rent movies and record the sex scenes to. He was pretty sheltered and just didn’t have access to much else.
Not to pick on you or anything, but I just can’t understand this perspective.
Like, imagine wanting less action in your Marvel movies because you can just youtube real fights in Denny’s restaurants.
I guess it depends on the effects action could have on you.
If you’re the type to get really pumped and hyped at action, something you do enjoy but maybe not all the time, then inserting it into a movie that you wanted to give you some other emotion would take away from the overall experience because it’s hard to get out of the juiced up state of mind.
So if sex scenes make you horny, and maybe you’re conditioned to get immediate relief from that feeling because of porn, then I can see why that could hinder your enjoyment of the overall movie.
More confirmation the world is right to see us as backwards. (US study)
So many sexual hangups. Makes sense considering we were founded by Puritans escaping to the new world to be more backwards and repressed.
Sex is a part of life. A massive part of the human condition. A part to be celebrated, not mourned or minimized. That’s how we get pedophile priests and sexual education summed up in “do not do it because it does not exist and you’re dirty for asking.” It’s not Gen Zs fault though, social media is designed to emphasize the darkest possible side of everything as it gets clicks, so sex as a concept is just a vector of potential trauma to them.
If only we had the same hangups about our violence boners our media gluts us on with abandon. Sports concussions, gory explosion movies, and our most celebrated exports tools of mass murder 😎👍. People giving one another physical pleasure 😱👎.
This would make sense if I could watch an adult show without a cringey sex scene shoehorned in for no apparent reason other than to show how macho the main man is.
We’re not prudes, we just want good stories.
The number of sex scenes are down since 2000 of the movies coming out of Hollywood. But if you’re willing to read subtitles, there’s still a lot of horny videos coming out of Western Europe.
For me, make the sex relevant to the plot and make the sex they have congruent with the characters.
I have noticed over the years sex scenes usually add no value to the movie. If the sex scene was removed completely it wouldn’t change the story at all.
Yeah, while I do enjoy seeing occasional boobs (which most of the time aren’t even showed), if I want to watch sex, I’ll just put on some porn.
IMO, The Room is one of the few movies where the sex scenes added anything. And even then, they didn’t add anything to the plot, they added to the meta plot, which was the story of a guy with a passionate vision but lacking the talent to pull off that vision, which IMO Wiseau does have talent doing, since he’s been able to recreate that same feeling in other content, making me think he’s playing a character (Tommy Wiseau the producer) he wants the audience to laugh at.
If I want to watch sex in a movie, I’ll watch a porno in my basement sex dungeon. If I want to watch something with family and friends without that weird awkward moment when SEX starts happening, I’ll watch a movie without a pointless sex scene in it.
I’m just glad you didn’t call it a “playroom”.
I also like to think of it as my Fappy Funtime Playroom
Oh okay, I don’t like that.
