Asking as there has been a few comments mentioning this with the new !stardewvalley@lemm.ee taking over !stardewvalley@lemmy.ml
!yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com for additional context on those recent events if you are interested
Also, an older post for more context on how lemmy.ml is managed: https://lemmy.world/post/16211417
Curious to hear other thoughts about this, as I’m trying to keep !simracing@lemmy.ml active, but might suggest to move it elsewhere if a lot of people prefer not to interact with lemmy.ml communities
No. I think .ml is becoming some kind of bogey man. At the end of the day I think any instance is gonna have its own slant and bias; which isn’t a problem for me, personally.
Yep. Even if it’s larger, I’ll post in a smaller, non-ml. I don’t mind reading their stuff and them existing but with the seemingly random moderation shenanigans, I avoid it.
I block subs and users and that usually takes care of 99% of the bullshit
Previously no. Now yes. Apparently got banned for inciting ‘peril’ against my own race because tankies don’t know the difference between ethnically Chinese and of Chinese nationality, and apparently you can’t criticize china in the forums. Throw in a few abusive individuals from the same instance shooting off the mouth and I pretty much said fuck it, I’m out.
I’ve declined the opportunity to Mod a community on lemmy.ml, which is really not like me.
What’s wrong with lemmy.ml?
As someone on .ml I really don’t think it’s that bad. Definitely left, and generally pro-China, but not too extreme imo. Hexbear is pretty bad. I’m a socialist and I disagree with a lot of the stuff there. But .ml is very much not a true “tankie” instance, in my opinion.
A lot of the issues people have with .ml are the practices of the admins.
Though also when hexbear.net was defederated from so many instances, a lot of those users switched to using their Lemmy.ml alts - many are quite open about this fact - and just continued posting as they had done previously, despite that style being the very reason why hexbear.net had been defederated from.
And when more instances - like lemmy.cafe - start defederating from Lemmy.ml, then those users will surely switch to alts on something like lemmy.world or Lemm.ee that are generally considered too large to be defederated from.
A lot of innocent users get caught up in the cross hairs of this fight between tankies vs. anti-tankies. People using your instance as a platform to attack (e.g. brigade and otherwise spew forth toxicity) other instances, yet possibly behaving normally else wise inside the instance itself.
Also, whether something is “extreme” or not depends on someone’s background context, and I would definitely say that the content on lemmy.ml is considered somewhat extreme for someone on America. Even/especially those who even consider themselves as “liberal”, not realizing yet what little that means on the international stage. The content is nowhere close to being as extreme as that from lemmygrad.ml or hexbear.net, but far more so than e.g. Reddit or Mastodon.
So I hope I have adequately conveyed that it’s not your fault in any way, you also expanding to mean all the other innocent users on lemmy.ml, but I wanted to convey that yes, I would defederate myself from your instance in a heartbeat if given half the chance. Possibly you won’t even mind:-), but you seemed interested, so I hope I helped by writing all this out.
Also, whether something is “extreme” or not depends on someone’s background context, and I would definitely say that the content on lemmy.ml is considered somewhat extreme for someone on America.
Weirdly, I find a lot of the content on America-centric sources (not just in Lemmy) to be pretty damned extreme myself. Like the casual assumption that guns are the right way to deal with all problems. (Slightly exaggerated, yes, but sadly only slightly.)
Sigh… yup. Much of that has been traced back and shown to not have originated from inside the USA, but it does not matter how it started bc it’s endemic now. And regardless of the rhetoric the news itself is pretty violent, with all the reporting of mass shootings - you know, bc they actually happened, except most of the time the for-profit news media doesn’t bother anymore, and instead prefers to sell something sexier than all the needless deaths of children.
But you can’t wake someone up if they refuse to come into the door in the first place - that is what I meant about labeling content to make it more acceptable to a mainstream audience, so as to boost subscriber counts and thereby increase the overall health of the Fediverse. Being okay with stagnation seems unwise to me, bc it predicates a fall.
US Democrat members get upset that the instance with 1600 users doesn’t agree with their opinions
Literally everyone else: “It’s bad to arbitrarily arrest someone for criticising corruption and send them and their family to labour camps.”
Tankies: “That’s just, your opinion, man.”
This is literally it. I hear so much hate towards .ml that I find it hard dtobelieve they are fanatics lol
I found this in like 30 seconds yesterday: https://lemmy.ml/post/21605430.
Not that the content isn’t true, mind you, but it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to constantly make fun of capitalism and the USA, then wonder why people in capitalist nations and especially the USA don’t want to come hang out there. (Hey, only we can say the bad stuff about ourselves, ya’know!?:-P)
I’ve blocked the instance quite a while ago. In the beginning I was just blocking communities, but the users spill everywhere unless you go nuclear.
Thanks for this info, I didn’t realize you could block an entire instance.
100% yes.
.ml generates most of the propaganda about my country I was complaining about in other post.
Just the fact that their admins also own grad speaks volumes.
It gets tiring having to be on the tolerant side while they can freely astrosurf backed and protected by their admins and devs… Just like the bots on reddit.If only blocking the instance at user level also blocked the users it would be great.
Pasting from another comment in this thread:
The only way I know how to ditch the users, besides blocking each one individually, would be to make a new account on either dubvee.org or Lemmy.cafe where all 3 of the big 3 are completely defederated. Think of those instances as troll-blockers, working hard to keep the Fediverse pleasant to converse in:-).
If they allow porn, anime, hentai, weed and piracy, I might make the switch, but this usually is the biggest obstacle.
I’m used to the lack of mexican content (except from the propaganda) so that’s not a problem.Yeah it seems like there’s barely anything here for Mexico, which I guess uses just the standard sources. There is !mexico@lemm.ee, but… you see how empty that is. There is https://lemmygrad.ml/c/latinamerica but… fuck no, not on on that instance!:-P
Yeah I see !trees@sh.itjust.works at lemmy.cafe, though I don’t see trees@lemmy.world so perhaps nobody there has subscribed to it yet, anyway ymmv. And I see !animepics@reddthat.com, but you may want to check your specific communities.
Damn, lemmy.cafe is somehow even running 0.19.6-beta.9. Is this too good to be true - is this a trap?:-) Or is the instance admin that much on the ball?
Yeah, the México thing is to be expected, we are extremely ignorant when it comes to technology, meta has everyone grabbed by the balls and they hold on to that. Even on reddit the subs have low activity and most are poorly moderated (hell, r/mexico is actively under the control of the political party in power, the users downvote the propaganda, but the mods protect their bots and manipulate the posts).
I’ll check the other instances later, as you can see I like keeping my profile empty because I’m too nomadic so it should not be a problem.
Yeesh. Things are not perfect in the USA but it does sound a bit better than that - until/unless Trump wins and then the gap will close a bit:-(.
I wonder where I will end up myself! I even wonder if I should take a break from social media altogether over the next couple of months, but that seems doubtful (if only bc it would take quite some effort to replicate the various functions, e.g. research a good RSS reader). Lemmy - like everywhere else - seems likely to become a shitstorm until the election is over.:-(
Though dropping lemmy.ml and hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml should help a ton.
hell i went one step further and abandoned lemmy entirely for mbin
Care to recommend a server to join?
I swear I’m already getting sick and tired of server-jumping over and over inside the fediverse…It depends what you are looking for. dbzer0.com I see a lot so remaining there is an option too. lemm.ee is similar in not wanting to defederate from anything, and damn if they don’t mean it so like they don’t even block lemmygrad.ml like virtually every other instance across the Fediverse.
Or go with a theme - StarTrek.website, programming.dev, etc. Or location.
If you want to block all 3 of the most toxic instances including lemmy.ml, there are only 2 that I have heard of that do so: dubvee.org and Lemmy.cafe. I may switch to one of those myself even.:-) The latter is pure Lemmy while the former runs an alternative UI (Tesseract) geared for streamlined multimedia, and may one day also run the Sublinks backend rather than Lemmy, though that doesn’t seem ready.
Other thoughts include PieFed and Mbin, which you should at least check out before deciding. The latter combines the ability to look at Lemmy and also Mastodon with the same account / on the same instance. PieFed is more a Lemmy replacement, with a variety of other goodies like Pixelfed (a “Decentralized photo sharing social media” platform) that tie in to it, and they are about to release a short video hosting service as well.
Sorry if this is too much - at least it’s so fucking cool to have it many awesome options to choose from! As excessive capitalism enshittifies everything for the sake of pure profiteering, the plethora of free and open source alternatives is a great sign for the future!:-)
You have perfectly summed up the biggest annoyance of the fediverse… Finding an instance/server. I’m ready to leave dbzero because I am tired of the ml/hex propaganda and they already stated the server won’t defederate from them and blocking the instances doesn’t block the users. Cool, not my server and I can’t donate so I’ll just show myself out when I find somewhere else.
I haven’t checked dubvee or cafe, but most instances either block the ones with porn/hentai, weed or the ones with piracy content, so that really limits where I’d like to be.
I kind of want to check pieFed or Mbin, I don’t know how much control I can get about blocking entire instances along their users and such, but it may be an answer.
Side note: I know about Mastodon and Pixelfed, already have an account… But I honestly don’t care about any of them, their content is not for me.
Click “Blocked” at https://lemmy.cafe/instances - they barely block anything except those big 3. Unless they do it without it appearing there, which is possible, but highly doubtful. In any case it looks awesome from that perspective.
Also the welcoming messages at the top of the server are amazing - “Have you installed ublock origin?”, “check out !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca”, etc.
Mbin I think doesn’t “block” even places such as Chapotraphouse - or at least Kbin did not - but it uses an entirely alternative voting scheme with “favorites” rather than upvotes and “reduces” rather than downvotes. That means that the popularity of something is only determined by the people on other Mbin/Kbin servers, with the upvote information still visible but not used by the sorting schemes. Also, the identity of people who use “reduces” against you are visible, so you can block them rather than have to suffer in silence, if they are super annoying about it e.g. reducing everything you’ve done without regards to its content. But yeah, I don’t know about actually hiding messages from people from particular instances - that’s what we are wanting here, and I imagine that if it is not doable now then it hopefully would be in the works?
I also don’t think I want Mastodon… or maybe I do? But anyway I don’t think we need it from the same account. Lemmy is topic-based rather than person-centered and that seems to make the most sense to me. Likewise Discord and Slack, but those are more unwieldy e.g. not indexed by search engines (such as DuckDuckGo, what else would I mean by that?:-P).
PieFed sounds the best in theory due to high integration with all those other services. Unless I end up not using or wanting those other services? I haven’t so far… then again they’re all so brand-new.
Sublinks sounds really exciting - you can even view a working demo - as it has been for the last half year with no updates that I’ve seen. Perhaps any day now… maybe…
And until my instance upgraded from 0.19.3 to 0.19.5 I enjoyed the Lemmy web UI. Now I dislike it - for a long reply (as I am wont to make myself:-D) up and downvote counts can be multiple (and variable!) screen rolls / pages away from the buttons on the bottom, and sometimes are on the right of the screen while other times on the left, having been wrapped around by a long name - go home UI, u r drunk! 😜
dubvee.org has iirc a single owner, which is usually not a sign of stability - but damn it is impressive! https://dubvee.org/about he did it all, then doesn’t even accept donations for it and guides people to give to other projects instead - that’s the opposite of capitalism, not just making fun of capitalism as people do on lemmy.ml constantly but rather living one’s literal and actual life according to one’s principles. Also I think he’s stated somewhere that he’ll switch to Sublinks rather than Lemmy as the backend when it’s ready. So… it’s a strong option as well, if a bit outside of the Lemmy ecosphere, and yet fully within the Fediverse and fully compatible with Lemmy, plus like PieFed additional multimedia enhancements of its own.
No, because its nonsense tribalism. I haven’t seen any actual consistency in nonsense takes between any particular instances, with only a couple of extreme examples (explodingheads, grad, yddrasil, etc) that are already blocked or dehosted. ML has more socialists, because lemmy was a little leftist community project at first and it’s one of the oldest and biggest instances. Big instances also have a lot of idiots. World has a reputation for a lot of idiots, because it’s by far the biggest instance. That doesn’t mean everyone, or even most people, are idiots that are on the instance.
Ignoring reality doesn’t make it less true. Certain groups of people or environments are worse than others, acting like that isn’t reality is pretty naive.
If there was a pro slavery, racist group would you say they deserve to be respected, of course not. There is a line, we just disagree on where it is. And calling that disagreement tribalism is simply trying to hand wave away valid criticism.
I don’t have anything against .ml users as a whole. As you say, every instance has its bad apples.
But .ml has the most hostile and heavy-handed admins of any instance I know of. It makes it impossible to have real conversations because talking about certain topics will get you instantly banned from the whole instance. It’s not about socialism either. In fact that’s part of the problem—I’m a leftist myself who would like to discuss leftism there and I used to enjoy doing so, but at this point that’s only possible if you follow the admin’s ideological beliefs on practically everything to a tee. It’s a toxic environment where real conversations can’t take place.
It’s full of Tankies spewing disinformation and ban you for moderate stances. Take their news community for example.
Take their news community for example.
No thank you, I would pay to avoid that actually! 😆
Whichever instance you choose, someone will have complaints about it. Personally I don’t have issues with .ml, but there are quite a few “tech”-oriented instances over which my trigger finger is itching on the site ban trigger.
It’s all a question of which subset of human stupidity you’re willing to deal with. Because all humans are stupid, we’re just different in how and where we express it.
Okay but while everything has its downsides… not equally so.
What if one day you were no longer allowed to discuss Linux? Or Teslas? Or whatever else the admins decided were now forbidden topics? Btw without telling you what those topics are. Also, if you even so much as accidentally mention the names of such, you lose access to the entire Fediverse from your account (on that instance).
It doesn’t even matter what topic material the admins of lemmy.ml have decided to block - Russia, China, Ukraine, Uyghurs, Taiwan, North Korea, North Carolina, Israel, Palestine, Gaza, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that they have set themselves up as the arbiters of “truth(iness)” and ban anyone from every community across the entire instance, even those they have never even heard of.
And then they dictate those rules - which again, are nowhere written down, plus not all that easy to guess at (let’s see… the USA does genocide, but Russia does too? no wait, Russia can do no wrong - that’s it! Oh shit, too late, already banned!:-P) - and hold all of the content on every community across the entire instance hostage to those rules.
I came here from Reddit to get away from such. Oopsie, it’s here too.
Do whatever you want, ofc :-) I just hope that I explained this position well enough to convey that nuanced take that some actions are worth holding apart from others. This isn’t merely a minor inconvenience imho - it’s a major breach of the principles that many of us came here to support in the Fediverse, cited as being free and open source, except apparently the set of rules are not open to be read anywhere at all.
You know, before lecturing me you might want to check out which instance I’m coming in from.
I said “I don’t have issues with .ml” … but I’m not coming in from a .ml account. So when I say “I have no issues with .ml” it’s in the context of the original question: do I refrain participating if the community is hosted on .ml.
One of my sentences there was a hypothetical written as if that were the case yes, but I did note that you were not from there, and the rest pertains to people trying to communicate with communities on that instance. Anyway, do whatever you want - I tried to offer an interesting counterexample but I’m not going to try to brow-beat you with anything. This isn’t Reddit - we can leave those modes behind us, if we want.
My point is that there’s nothing specifically objectionable about .ml (to me, obviously). There’s many instances out there, after all, and all of them are at some risk or another form over- (or under-)zealous moderation. If a community is on .ml and seems to be valuable I’ll go to it, unlike, say, a community on a hypothetical instance called youngnazisforfreedom.sieg.heil or whatever. If the moderation causes issues, I’ll switch to a community (or make another community) on another instance.
THAT is to me the principle of the Fediverse: the ability to choose and to move on at need or will.
Well said.:-)
i tend to not even notice, usually picking a community by volume of subs and posting. its hard to keep up with the terrible modding in places as ive subbed to over 800 active communities in various instances. i dont block instances. at minimum, i want to see whats going on.
i dont recall specific issues with .ml but .world seems specifically egregious with its power trip modding, based on how ive been ‘reprimanded’… its amazing how they want to kill activity/enthusiasm in some subs that are desperate for content.
it feels like once an instance gets a solid level of user account churn, they feel they can do whatever to end users as there will just be more. its reddit all over again in places.
the power modding is somewhat shocking to me as the threadiverse really isnt all that large. i guess it doesnt take much for those people.
some of the only users ive silenced are mods
I agree that lemmy.world moderation has issues. It can be arbitrary and the written rules don’t really matter. There’s also zero recourse.
I would recommend sh.itjust.works
I would recommend sh.itjust.works
lol
I was banned from a large sub there because I downvoted some clickbaity posts by the mod themselves. Literally that, downvoting.
No, there are no instances whose communities I refuse to participate on. I have never blocked a community, user, or instance here.
Oh man I don’t know how I would use this place if I couldn’t block communities. First few weeks I try to use Lemmy every single post was just memes so I’d end up blocking like two dozen communities to stop it.
Not to mention just randomly scrolling in public and whoops, it’s a random porn clip brought to you by lemmynsfw
In your Settings is an option to ban all content labelled as NSFW regardless of its origin.
