Non-tankies on .ML getting upset at this:
You might not be an idiot, but you’re wearing a T-shirt that says “I AM AN IDIOT” in bold letters across your chest. Maybe change your shirt. 🤷🏻♂️
to better analogize this, you’re hanging around a nazi rally trying to find friends, and people keep calling you a nazi for some reason.
Weird.
As a Lemmy user I don’t care for this
I feel like Lemmy has the reputation of being Tankie
average lemming experience really.
I don’t have an issue with lemmy.ml users but that’s because I don’t use sweeping generalizations. I’ve had perfectly acceptable conversations with people across all kinds of instances.
I’m not a tankie but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
I like socialism too. But I hate bootlicking authoritarian simps who pretend like they know shit about socialism because they read that one Lenin essay on Marxist.org
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest? These are systems that just won’t work with current population growth and resources. We can always do far and away better than capitalism, but I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
Any time a path opens to seize power, humans fill that void regardless of what they believe in. Now suddenly we’ve traded authoritarian 1 for authoritarian 2. It makes no sense to me and I read both Lenin and Marx.
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest?
Of course we should! Every instance of socialism should adapt to the specific material conditions. There’s not much reason to think that socialism in developed countries would look the same as socialism is pre-industrial societies.
It’s just that in order to know what worked and what didn’t, it’s necessary to treat those projects as serious, earnest attempts at socialism and to be willing to point out both the positive and negative aspects. And doing that will immediately get you branded as a tankie by .world. Because in practice, tankie doesn’t actually mean that you defend everything any socialist state ever did, it means that you defend anything a socialist state ever did. Thinking critically and trying to learn from the mistakes from the past makes you a tankie.
Dronies have a pathological need to distance themselves from every attempt at socialism (except the ones that failed, which can be upheld as perfect since they never had to implement their vision), which renders them unable to look at the past from an objective standpoint. They are more concerned with making sure everyone knows that they’re “one of the good ones” than they are about studying and learning from the past. Tankies, otoh, are willing to own up to the facts and acknowledge that past projects were genuine attempts, even when they ultimately failed as the USSR did. Of course it would not have failed if it didn’t have its flaws. But you will rarely see a dronie pushing this angle or interrogating the reasons for the failure, because learning from its mistakes is too close to treating it as as serious and legitimate project - far better (and easier!) to just write off the whole thing and push for shit that has only ever existed in your head and has never been tainted by contact with reality.
What’s worse on the internet these days is “Marxists” that have never read Marx, or just the Manifesto, yet think themselves an authority on the subject. I made an intro to Marxism reading list to help alleviate that, and try to point out misframings and misunderstandings of Marx when I see it, but it’s still a huge issue across Lemmy. Particularly Lemmy.world.
Nothing about a dictatorship is public ownership.
*ism is just a tool for any aspiring autocrat. Stalin would have been far-right if he saw it as being a valid pathway towards power.
Effective tyrants are forever pragmatic and never burdened by ideological loyalty.
Yes that’s why I stated Stalin, Putin, and the CCP are ideologically opposed to socialism/communism. People who enjoy socialist concepts should be opposed to Lemmy.ml, not see common grounds with them.
but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
Probably why you don’t have issues with Lemmy.ml users.
Im the same, I like socialism and the theory of communism is nice.
I don’t like .ml users because they hardcore believe and spread the bastardized authoritarianism-based CCP/Russian propaganda version of communism.
Right. They’re opposed to socialism and what the hold up as communism is actually Fascism with a heavy dose of State Capitalism.
What you’re looking for is anarchism. Aka libertarian socialism.
Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that is against all forms of authority and seeks to abolish the institutions it claims maintain unnecessary coercion and hierarchy, typically including the state and capitalism.
Um. No. I rather enjoy having a government, just a government that isn’t corrupted by the rich and actually takes care of its people like it’s supposed to. That inherently necessitates it having authority.
That’s not what the theory of communism aims for, but you do you.
Edit: to go in a bit more details, anarchism doesn’t deny all authority, just authority gained by and used for coercion. A doctor would still have authority to recommend treatments, since they are more knowledgeable, for example. So that uncorrupted and caring government you want is simply a form of anarchism
Either you’re thinking of something else or you should go update Wikipedia then, because that’s where I got that description from.
It’s extremely telling that you are relying on Wikipedia for your understanding of Communism, rather than Marx, Engels, etc. You should read theory, if you want to start I made an introductory Marxist reading list.
Hey, I was you about 6 months ago. Same views, and then I was called a dirty imperialist just because I wasn’t left enough. Like, these ML people are out for blood. They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
The CCP nad Putin cucks aren’t even leftists, like at all. ML and Hexbear supported Donald Trump because he is anti-NATO.
As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
Plenty of us tried that. We weren’t the ones that turned it into a political Battlefield. I didn’t start out blocking their communities and servers. I’m a pragmatist. Actually largely against people who are blindly ideological regardless of the ideology. Even if I tend to personally identify with the anarchist Spectrum.
Hell lemmygrad and hexbear weren’t banned because of their politics. They were banned because of their behavior. Anyone who behaved like so many of them did should have been banned regardless of politics. Lemmy.world was de-federated by certain servers for far far less.
And if you want to exist in a bubble. Then by all means please do. But don’t admonish other people for not doing so. Ignoring politics and being ignorant of politics is in large part how so many of the problems we have today were created. People left alone at the levers of power who should never have had any business. All because people were content and ignorant.
And if you want to exist in a bubble. Then by all means please do. But don’t admonish other people for not doing so. Ignoring politics and being ignorant of politics is in large part how so many of the problems we have today were created. People left alone at the levers of power who should never have had any business. All because people were content and ignorant.
Just wanted to chime in that I agree with this, and frankly that’s why I value keeping an eye on what the narrative that both sides have been operating by. I don’t see how any of the problems we face are served by selective ignorance.
Hell lemmygrad and hexbear weren’t banned because of their politics. They were banned because of their behavior. Anyone who behaved like so many of them did should have been banned regardless of politics.
To say they weren’t banned for their politics but instead their behavior is a bit misleading in terms the sequence of events. The .world defederation was preemptive as near as I can tell- Hexbear turned on federation but before they federated with anyone, .world had already defederated. The citations in the .world defed thread were all pre-federation threads of people being hyped to connect to more people. Even if people were saying they wanted to ‘bully libs’, that just reads to me like people talking shit because as far as I can tell the hexbears never made a single post anywhere on .world.
The thread in question cited several threads, it’s a bit dramatic in places, but also explicitly instructing people not to break rules- instructed not to even register accounts for trolling. Standard things to be aware of in posting on a federated instance even if they are being dramatic or saying they’re propagandists- there’s plenty of normal people there from what I’ve observed this last year. If the points they outlined in that post are to be their party line then at least they’re just stating it right there so you know what their angle is going to be.
I feel like the case that it was not political censorship would be stronger if the whole thing had been less vibes based from the start.
Why tho? I’m having trouble figuring out the differences in instances
The lemmy.ml instance is known to have admins, mods and users that spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
Ooh hard facts? I love hard facts! Which hard facts are you talking about?
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters. The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
China is a capitalistic country with a state guidance in their industrial policy and a dictator in the helm.
They don’t really even have anything in regards to a national health care.
How about China is, in fact, a dictatorship for starters
That could be true. But I wonder, in general, what is the process for determining whether a country is a dictatorship or not, from the outside? China claims to be a democracy and holds elections, like just about every other country under the sun. Of course, not every country with elections is actually a democracy, but if we’re talking “hard facts” I think we need to be able to point to specific, objective things.
The Communist in “Chinese Communist Party” is just there for show.
Isn’t the Chinese Communist Party the single largest self-identifying communist party in the world? Shouldn’t that factor in, like, at least a little bit into our standards for what defines a communist party? Regardless, this is kind of just your subjective opinion, isn’t it? Again, what specific, objective standards are you looking at to distinguish between “real” communism and “fake” communism?
Lemmy.ml is admin’d and moderated by mostly Marxists. That’s the principle reason, everything else stems from hostility towards Marxism and Marxists.
I love these posts because they let me find out which .world users desperately need to be added to my block list.
Lol, ig “egocentric” should be part of the official tankie toolkit, and yes you were tagged a tankie a long time ago.
These posts aren’t for you, they’re for swaying sane .ml users to leave, showing the true colors of .ml to newbies as quickly as possible and to hopefully encourage non-.ml users to avoid posting and commenting on .ml communities
For me posts like this just make me embarrassed to be on Lemmy in general. It’s like making a post about how you get upset when you get an email from a Gmail account.
👋 Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
What have I done to you that makes you want me to leave?
You made a comment that you’re ashamed of the platform. If that’s the case, I encourage you to seek out one more suitable.
No I said this post made me embarrassed to be here. The instance fighting is one of the worst aspects of this site.
Okay, if you feel embarrassed do something about it. No one’s going to stop arguing just because you feel embarrassed. Furthermore, the reason people are bashing people on ml is because their collective behavior has been atrocious. Here’s some things you could try:
- Advocate for a culture of better inter-instance conduct between ml and other platforms (this will likely get you ridiculed and if it ever works, it won’t be soon.)
- Get on an instance that isn’t as hostile (highly recommended)
- Leave the platform (this will produce the most immediate and thorough results)
Edit: ah, look at that, the Russians woke up and the downvotes are pouring in.
Assuming this to be a working strategy (and not a way of swaying new users out of Lemmy in general), what’s the endgame? If everyone you deem “sane” leaves the place, it will just be even worse, a concentrated “tankie” circlejerk, visible to plenty of newbies. Then what?
it will just be even worse, a concentrated “tankie” circlejerk
It’s already a tankie circle jerk over there, you can’t concentrate what’s already concentrated.
visible to plenty of newbies. Then what?
Visible yes, but its a LOT easier to say “Oh yea that’s the tankie instance, they’re small so just block it and move on” rather than
“Oh yea that’s the tankie instance, but they’re also one of the biggest instances, so if you block them you’ll be cutting off a decent chunk of non-tankie content”
So many stories of “I signed up on .ml because it was one of the biggest, then I realized it was full of Tankies and signed up elsewhere” and if there’s stories of that, there’s probably many more where the person just left and never came back because what they saw was a place was full of toxic tankies
anything you say officer 🫡
- Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
- Why don’t you just block the instance
Edit: thank you for real responses, got so used to be people getting pissed for no reason on social media that I was genuinely surprised to check Lemmy and see a bunch of genuine answers with no butthurt to be seen
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism, it’s maintained by the lemmy devs so it has lots of “normal” users too. Some people associate lemmy.ml with “tankie” viewpoints.
Lemmy devs are tankies, especially the main maintainer
At least they’re more level headed than Nutomic is.
Nutonic is literally a transphobe who is on record as saying that trans rights are western degeneracy
I wonder what Blahaj thinks of him
Hexbear isn’t fond of Nutomic either.
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism
It means Mali and was chosen because it was cheap/free
chosen because it was cheap
Um nah, there are a LOT of cheap ass TLDs, hell even .com TLDs are only $10-20 a YEAR
It might not actually mean marxism-leninism (then again, who the hell knows, we have .zip TLDs now ffs), but it sure does to the .ml admins
Back 3y ago the users claimed it did mean marxist-leninist (or rather if we must be pedantic, that the TLD does mean Mali but they chose it because it meant marxist-leninist to them.) They stopped around the time of the exodus (read: they put on a mask to trap unsuspecting redditors) and they’ve ramped back up since everyone defederated hex and grad (my guess, those users created .ml alts specifically to proselytize to the unwilling like Evangelical roaches once their supply to feed their victim complex dried up.)
History for posterity’s sake.
Lemmy.ml is admin’d and moderated mostly by Marxists, and the liberal side of Lemmy is hostile to that. That’s the principle contradiction, everything else stems from that core issue.
whats wrong with lemmy.ml? i tried bunch of different instances last month, and fedaration works best on this one, when i use other instances i cant even see the posts on some small communities i follow
The instance admins and mods of some of the larger communities are self-described Marxist-Leninists, and sometimes delete comments and ban users who make comments and posts that they disagree with. Sometimes the removed comments are what most people, including most communists, would regard as basic statements of fact, like that Stalin wasn’t perfect, that something bad happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989, that Ukraine’s Jewish president isn’t a fan of the Nazis, or that Uighurs are not universally having a brilliant time.
There’s a second issue that when openly Stalinist instances like Lemmygrad (who at least used to explicitly say membership was only open to users who thought Stalin was good in their instance description) were defederated by major instances like lemmy.world, lots of users made new accounts on lemmy.ml to post exactly the same tankie nonsense (typically along the lines of Russia is fighting a defensive war and hasn’t hurt anyone but even if they weren’t, they’d be justified in annexing the whole of Ukraine and killing anyone who objected) as had led to the defederation in the first place.
Sometimes this leads to people not from .ml to make snap judgements about comments and posts from .ml users, when really it’s just a vocal minority of nutters posting the nonsense and trying to claim that any criticism they receive is just people being brainwashed by nutters in a more neoliberal/neoconservative direction like Reagan and Thatcher.
That was my original Lemmy instance. It was weirdly fanatically communist and pro-Trump at the same time. I had a real hard time understanding what was going on other than Russian propaganda. I left for here and it’s much much more understandable.
Lemmy.ml has many Communists because the admins and moderators are largely made up of Marxists. This is because it is the dev instance, and the devs are Marxists. Lemmy.ml is in no way pro-Trump, the vast majority of users stand in firm opposition to Democrats and Republicans, owing to the strong Marxist presense.
You say that, but it was vastly anti-Harris and silent on Trump right around the election, so… bullshit.
It was anti-Harris, anti-Biden, and anti-Trump, as Communists and Anarchists are.
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
internal left fighting.
I’m talking to people on Lemmy.ml who say things like “Reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias”, “Russia was right to invade Ukraine, it needs to be denazified”, “Uighur genocide is made up”, etc, etc etc, I wouldn’t call that “internal left fighting”
Doesn’t mean all .ml users are like that.
What happens here is an attack on a wide group based on a very arbitrary characteristic.
It’s not that we’re judging all .ml users. It’s just that any .ml user can be a potential tankie who will defend Putin to his grave, like the admins and mods.
This is reflected in the content on the instance, and what sort of things you’re allowed to post there. Which does influence people using said instance, even if very slightly, and unnoticeably.
I don’t actually agree with the meme, but the humour stems from the fact that it could be true insofar that it’s pretty often that you’ll find shameless tankies wanting to suck Putler off and destroy “western imperialists”.
So I do take comments at their own value, no matter the instance you’re from. But lemmy.ml is almost as shit as lemmygrad.ml
In which things is someone allowed to think differently from the US Democratic party before they are expelled from the left?
And fuck Putin, btw. But there are people with widely diverse points of view on an incredibly amount of matters, that can have common grounds on many other issues. And, at least for me, they’ll need to try harder that just being putin’s useful idiots to be expelled from my definition of what the “left” is.
Especially on a matter as complex as Ukraine war. That I gladly support arming and helping Ukraine, and my country will keep arming and helping Ukraine when USA steps back once Trump sits in the office. But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine. Others may support Russia on this. But as long as we both agree on other issues I won’t deny that. If they support end of capitalism, workers rights, LGBT rights or gender equality we would have common ground on those topics.
But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine.
Russia invaded Ukraine. That’s a war of aggression. Russia is wrong in this. Don’t pretend like it’s a “complex issue” and “we need to listen to both sides”.
No, we don’t. Russia is the aggressor, they’re in the wrong, they need to fuck off from Ukraine and Putin be held responsible in a court of international law. There’s no ifs ands or buts about it.
“We could have common ground…”
Yeah I don’t need to have any common ground with people who actively lie, spread disinformation, undermine legitimate information, deny international crimes, deny genocides, spread values of authoritarian nations.
I don’t even identify with any left-right division but I’m definitely not what you’d call an “enlightened centrist”, because that’s a garbage position for garbage people who are afraid of any sort of confrontation.
About a bit less than a hundred years ago there were discussion like “we need to appease this Hitler fellow, seems awfully mad” “maybe if we don’t protest over him taking the Sudetenland, he’ll calm down?”
Would you be intellectually arguing the merits of Hitler’s invasion of Sudetenland as “a complex issue, you have to consider both sides”?
No. Fuck that. Take a stance.
I have a stance. I did say I support Ukraine. Same I say I’m clearly leftist.
But you don’t need to stop being able to think just because you support a side. You can support a side and still understand the complexity of the issue, and that you are supporting the lesser evil.
I still support Ukraine on this. Mostly because Russia initiated hostilities, and because I think the European Union is a better place to live than Russia. We protect people’s rights better. But it’s a complex issue because there are people in some Ukrainian regions that does not want to be Ukrainian anymore, and that does not want to be forced to move away from Russian influence. And this is clearly a proxy war between two empires.
I have my stance, but I’m not blinded by it.
I don’t need to think “all opinions are equal” to be “able to think”. I don’t need to accept Russians saying they’ve done nothing wrong and to “consider it from their point of view.” Russia broke international law.
It’s not a complex issue.
Oh yeah the old “no there’s definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas.” No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.
Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men
Stop being an apologist to Russia.
Do you understand that by calling me Russian apologists, when I’ve said several times that I support Ukraine, is just making my point?
You see enemies even in your allies.
If we are naming moustached men I remember some paranoid mustache men that also thought everyone was his enemy. How did that feel? Ah?
Last paragraph is just a joke, I don’t actually think you are a stalinist just because you are so radical in your views, but you get me.
You can say you support Ukraine, and still be apologist for Russia. Those aren’t mutually exclusive.
“You are so radical in your views.”
You’re literally an apologist for Russian authoritarianism. You’re spreading the propaganda that occupied Ukrainians actually want to be Russians. That is bullshit that Russia has been spreading for years. It’s not controversial either. You just keep yourself ignorant, and probably didn’t even click on the link I pasted, and definitely didn’t read it. And you have the nerve to talk to me about the “ability to think”?
“Our citizens are very afraid. Of course if Russians with soldiers come to their flat and ask if they’d like to vote for Putin, everyone will say: OK, yes. Because everyone wants to save their life. But it does not mean that our citizens want to support Putin.”
One resident of the Kherson region - the south-eastern part which is occupied by Russian forces - described to the BBC how voting was organised in his village.
We are unable to disclose his name or location due to security concerns.
“Pro-Russian locals visit households with ballot boxes, accompanied by armed military men. If they knock and no one opens, they move on to the next house. They don’t break into houses, but they do visit,” the local resident said.
They added: "This is ridiculous. What kind of election is it when there are two locals - one holding a list of voters and the other a ballot box - and a military man with a machine gun? This isn’t democracy. It’s a comedy show."
Here’s more.
Ukraine war: Russia claims win in occupied Ukraine ‘sham’ referendums
News agencies run by the pro-Kremlin administrations in Donetsk and Luhansk are reporting that up to 99.23% of people voted in favour of joining Russia - a high percentage that would be unusual in a vote of this nature.
Like you can’t… or won’t call bullshit on things like ^ that?
You supposedly being “for Ukraine” doesn’t really matter when you’re touting Russian propaganda, consciously or not.
All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
Except the pro-Russians won’t say they’re pro-Russians.
A lot of Russian propaganda is just sowing FUD.
Here’s a tangentially related comic, as I just read the latter bit of your comment in that tone, (not saying you’re guilty of the same things.)
Basically, because being directly pro-Russia is so see-through, a lot of bad actors merely sow FUD. For one check Davel@lemmy.ml if you want an example. A very polite person who lists links and sources (firehose of falsehood is also a soviet strategy btw).
Dude pretends to be American, talks American politics, but always in line with Russian propaganda, while saying things like “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias” and absolutely refusing to address whether he is pro-Russian or not, despite very clearly having talking points which show he is strongly pro-Russian.
So either he’s an American who fucking loves Soviet culture and larps being Russian, is actively against Ukraine and believes Russia was eight to invade it, so the least patriotic American to ever exist.
OR… (and I believe this to be a tad more likely) he’s actually a lying Russian.
But Russians aren’t known for disinformation and lies, right? Right…?
Haven’t i seen you cast these types of accusations before…?
Pure AD HOM. Instead of addressing a single part of my argument, you’re instantly pointing a finger at my person, but you’re so easy that I don’t mind engaging.
“Accusations” like quoting his own comments?
He claims to be American. He says “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias.” He won’t answer the question “are you pro-Russian”.
Those aren’t opinions. Those are facts you can verify yourself.
Fervently and actively trying to say Russian propaganda doesn’t exist, definitely not on Lemmy, while refusing to answer whether he’s pro-Russian or not. Just what kind of American would you have to be to support Russia and be against Ukraine while actively promoting Russian propaganda? Please, do reason that out for me. Thanks.
I’m not debating you bud, relax.
Pretty much my entire experience with your account is dealing with you accusing me of being a russian operative, even linking me into threads across instances in threads I had no involvement in.
I’m just pointing out the pattern here, though I’m grateful you’ve moved on to another target now.
edit because @Desus@lemmy.world got himself banned on my instance:
I’ve repeatedly stated that I’m not russian nor pro-russian - but that’s the point. There is no way of addressing this accusation thoroughly enough to satisfy the accuser, which is why nearly every community/instance has a rule against it. Nevermind the hopelessness of trying to categorize/typify every anonymous user along some nationalist line of personal significance.
Confusing analysis for justification is a common enough mistake, but it’s an even more common bad-faith way of dismissing materialist analysis entirely. Following various users around to make those accusations is simply a way to force disengagement onto others and potentially solidify reactionary impulses against communism/socialism more broadly.
Oh yes, “another target”.
You felt threatened, because I asked you if you were pro-Russian. Took you a while to respond, btw. And did you even give a yes or no answer? I fail to recall you saying you’re not pro-Russian. And I’ve never accused you of being a “Russian operative”, lol. Spreading Russian propaganda doesn’t even require that you are a Russian. But Davel is claiming to be American, while being intensely pro-Russian and due to the interactions someone dug in the modlog last time, we also know there’s an actual organised effort with them. I still haven’t said that organised effort is actually some paid “operatives”.
You read too much into things. Improve your reading comprehension and maybe you won’t feel so easily threatened by simple questions like “are you pro-Russian” when you use a username like “archomrade” and constantly post things consistent with Russian propaganda. Perhaps you just don’t realise it?
Thanks for your efforts fighting disinformation. Seriously.
Why thank you. I appreciate that. Honestly, more than you’d guess.
They edited their post about four hours after you wrote yours, I suspect to try and discredit your points, because in their post they claim to have repeatedly told you they they’re neither Russian nor pro-Russia, but my skeptical antennae are twitching.
Also, their justification for editing their post is that you’re banned on their instance, which I don’t buy as a reason to edit rather than reply. You’re not banned on world and neither are they.
They edited their post about four hours after you wrote yours, I suspect to try and discredit your points, because in their post they claim to have repeatedly told you they they’re neither Russian nor pro-Russia
Oh yeah I remember that guy. He says he answered the question, but he never did. I thought there was something I wasn’t really recalling. But yeah. Then I kept asking “if you already answered it, why can’t you answer again, it’s a simple yes or no question”, but he just refuses to answer.
Now this might be me imagining things, but these accounts lie about literally anything, but they can’t say “no, I’m not pro-Russian”, because they know how insane Russia is and no matter how unimportant you are, if you actually say you are against the government, even as a clear joke, you might be in danger of falling out of a window.
No yeah they just quit replying once they realise they’re going on a bit too long while absolutely refusing to answer such a simple question. It’s not even “are you Russian”. It’s whether they support the current Russian policies. Anyone who can’t say they’re against Russia literally breaking international law can go fuck themselves. Hear that, @archomrade@midwest.social ?
Chill out there is nothing to get upset about.
Come to think of it, how do I know you aren’t Russian? In truth, how do any of us know we aren’t Russian?
If they absolutely refuse to answer “are you pro-Russian”, while actively spreading Russian propaganda, that might be a tip as to what they support.
I’m against Russia. I’ve been militarily trained to protect my country from Russia, and I’m willing to do it should the fuckers open up a second front here. However seeing how they’re having to pour orcs into the meatgrinder at such a rate that their equipment is getting older and older, we’d end up facing enemies with WWII gear while we’re outfitted with the latest gear.
Plus, we didn’t let them through the last time either.
Haven’t worn this in a while, prolly would have to shave down to a buzzcut for it to fit. But I’m not gonna paste an image of my military pass. Not because I’m afraid I’ll dox myself or anything, but because it was in my storage and a drunken bum fell asleep in the next storage over while smoking cigarettes and burned down the whole storage room with everyone’s storage spaces. Thanks for reminding me though, I need a new one.
Jokes aside, it’s not about whether someone is Russian or not. It’s about whether someone is pro current Russian policies. I mean I’d argue that actual Russian patriots would fight Putin in any reasonable way. And this probably excludes open armed rebellion, but like, just generally, oppose him. People don’t dare to though, as they tend to fall out of windows. I’m not opposed to Russia. I’m opposed to what Russia currently is.
@Dasus@lemmy.world
I literally cannot see anything you’ve posted after you were banned - an instance ban prevents any of your activity from federating. It isn’t that I ‘stop responding’, that possibility has simply been taken away from me because Dasus can’t resist russia-jacketing anyone who disagrees with them. I can only see your comments if I visit the post from any other instance url. Call it unhealthy curiosity, I figured you’d be shadowboxing in my absence.
I do not support Russia and Putin is a piece of shit - feel free to send a screenshot to the kremlin if it makes you feel better. The US isn’t getting involved out of benevolence, though, and Ukraine would be fucked by IMF and US aid conditions for the next century even if they were successful in repelling the russian invasion. But my material analysis about that conflict isn’t even at issue here, instead it’s your insistence that any analysis that involves Russia at all be sufficiently critical, else the speaker be condemned as a pro-russian stooge. It doesn’t mean I think that russian capitalism is preferable, it’s just an acknowledgement that it’s western capitalism that has historically -and is currently- obstructing the development of working-class solidarity across the globe, and exchanging Ukrainian (and russian) lives for its expansion is a shit deal to put it mildly.
No war but class war.
Well I’m sorry I made you write all that, but I do really appreciate you writing “Putin is a piece of shit”, no matter how childish or crazy I may seem to you.
Also, I don’t remember whether in the earlier chat we had some day you actually said that as well. You very well may have, I remember someone saying that at some point, but my short term memory fucking sucks nowadays. But Davel definitely has never answered me.
I don’t see how you could say that any capitalism is favourable to another brand of capitalism. Well, except for perhaps saying that Western capitalism is definitely favourable to capitalism with Asian values, which is essentially capitalism deprived of individual freedom and monopolised by the state, ie authoritarian capitalism taking advantage of Western markets. Watch the video, Slavoj Zizek really has a bette handle on economical philosophy than I do.
There is a lot of war beside class war. Mainly, people doing actual war in places with war. Like Ukraine. Now you could never imagine that a European country (yes Russia is technically one too but let’s ignore that for a while) would actually manage to organise an invasion of another European country with soldiers who don’t even know they’re going to invade another country. “Special Military Operation”. Imagine, idk, Germany pulling that on France? Sure, 100 years ago. But today? You just wouldn’t be able to do that. 100 years ago the populace was still less educated and easier to manipulate. Much like much of Russia’s population and pretty much all of North Korea’s. If those were educated westerners, they’d have never bought into the propaganda of their respective nations and they couldn’t have organised such military efforts.
Is there shitty western propaganda? Yes. Do western countries have a lot of fault and some even actively warmonger? Yes. But is our active worry Western countries? No. (Well, aside from the US because of Trump.) Is our main worry really Russia at the moment? I think so, yeah.
I don’t see how you could say that any capitalism is favourable to another brand of capitalism. Well, except for perhaps saying that Western capitalism is definitely favourable to capitalism with Asian values, which is essentially capitalism deprived of individual freedom and monopolised by the state, ie authoritarian capitalism taking advantage of Western markets
I don’t view one type of capitalism as more favorable than another, but I do recognize the particular dominance and imperialistic qualities of western capitalism. In fact, I see the the current global conflicts in a similar lens to Zizek when he says:
[the existing western democratic capitalist] “system has lost its self-evidence, its automatic legitimacy, and now the field is open.”
The legitimacy of western democratic capitalism is (rightfully) losing credibility, and I even think it’s currently collapsing. I don’t share Zizek’s skepticism of… “Chinese-Singaporean capitalism with Asian values”. He has had some questionable takes on racial/national identities in the past - it’s been a while since I trusted his geopolitical cultural analysis. At the very least I think the ‘Socialism/Capitalism with Chinese characteristics’ has yet to play itself out, whereas there’s about a dozen examples of western imperialist intervention ending in absolute squalor for the working class wherever they’ve been active.
The point is that from a purely ML perspective, there’s nothing to be gained by dragging that conflict out. The working class will be in no better material conditions under either outcome, even if we freely acknowledge their occupation and annexation is both immoral and illegal. So long as western democratic capitalism retains its global significance, there can’t be socialism without a vanguard party to defend against western capitalistic subversion, at least not one that lasts.
There is a lot of war beside class war. Mainly, people doing actual war in places with war. Like Ukraine.
“No war but class war” isn’t a statement about the existence of war other than class war lol.
“system has lost its self-evidence, its automatic legitimacy, and now the field is open.”
I don’t disagree with this. And it’s actually nice to get into nuance with someone. The point is that I have a genuine reason to worry about Russia and Russian propaganda — basically everyone has but if they make more of move on Europe, Imma be 30km from the frontlines, and with the current drone technology, I don’t like my chances in what I’m doing, which is not something I’m gonna reveal here just in case there actually is a war. (My war time posting, that is.)
The legitimacy of western democratic capitalism is (rightfully) losing credibility
Sure, yeah, but you do realise what you sound like when you make statements like that? I’ll gladly discuss how fucked up Western politics are when I know I’m not talking to someone straight up worshipping Russia.
For one, I’ve already explained how I will defend Finland and Europe if it comes down to it, but how people just overhype Finland. “Happiest country in the world”? What fucking garbage. One of the most miserable countries in the world, when it comes to general enjoyment of life. Perhaps one of the safest countries in the world, sure, where you’ll usually have your basic needs met and won’t have to resort to violence or crime, but… “happiest”? Not even fucking close.
It’s not about racial or etchnic takes when Zizek talks about ‘capitalism with Asian values’. Essentially he’s remarking that a lot of Asian countries are pretty authoritarian, but know that they need to rely on making bank, which is why they successffully employ capitalism, but impose some authoritarian features on the people owning the companies doing the trade. Not exactly monopolising trade, which would mean no capitalism, but basically… monopolising the people doing capitalism… so… it’s not gonna “play itself out”. How would China starve itself of people and business, while being so resource rich? Even with super heavy regulation and authoritarianism, they could go all the way down to NK level and still have… a population. So you know… you won’t be seeing “the end of” anything like that…
“No war but class war” isn’t a statement about the existence of war other than class war lol.
Yes but you can also see how quotes can be interpreted in several ways, yes? And the importance of actual war goes above class war, no matter how I’d like to kick up a revolution and start building barricades.
It’s hectic. We can’t use hectic. I want to rage and break things and yell at morons. But unfortunately that’s just never worked and annoying as it is, we have to compromise with morons.
Lemmings realizing the devs of lemmy use lemmy.ml
Lemmings realizing one of the devs is literally a teenager having fun by doing whatever he wants instead of complaining about instances
Tankie Toxicity should be called out regardless of background or age. In fact, a teenager should be exposed to the true authoritarianism roots more so so there’s a chance they don’t become permanently part of the tankie cult
That’s a bit harsh if you ask me. Back in 2021 there wasn’t many Lemmy servers for register.
You can scroll through my 1.400 comments and don’t find a tankie-like comment.
Btw. Lemmy.ml is the dev server, every new update and feature starts here.
That’s a bit harsh if you ask me.
My thoughts exactly for getting banned for making a simple joke.
I don’t care about all the politics and shit regarding instances, i just want to use lemmy :(
You are on the wrong instance for that
They’re on the normal regular instance. Political content is mostly propagated through lemmy.world anyway.
Developer: makes platform
End User: “Fuck you.”
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Genocide apologia is ‘nothing wrong’ to you, I see. Unsurprising.
I have never seen .ml people engage in genocide apologia. They’re fond of authoritarian governments which I find distasteful, but they aren’t pro-genocide.
Go ask about the Uyghurs in China over there and get back to me
I was on ml and it was pretty chill for a non-tankie. Until a mod powertripped and ban me for insulting an homophobe. Some people like me join the instance without knowing of all this tankie thing. IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. .ml is mostly OK 75% of the times. Hexbear is a cesspool always
The only bans I saw on your account were for being needlessly hostile- and they look like they all were extremely short.
Re: the homophobic comments, in your posts that got removed you were hostile for what looks to me like your misinterpreting a bad attempt at a bad joke (not even from .ml user, but .ee), though you didn’t tell them to kys that time at least. You then went through the their profile responding to months old posts to try to continue things, again being needlessly hostile- if I had to venture a guess that was more of the reason for your ban 5 months ago. Plenty of other instances will also temp ban for behavior like that.
and then 8 months ago you dropped this gem: CW self harm, transphobia
spoiler
The accusations of toxicity seem to be projection.
CW self harm, transphobia
Bullshit.
Why don’t you show the context?The user bullied me for being gay. He’s the one who went into my history and saw I was a gay dad. He reply to my comment about the fact that I love my daughter with the reply “You’re gay”. Then mods like you told me it was a "bad joke’ remove my post and let the douche’s post up.
Now I’d like to see where I’ve been transphobe, , I have a trans person really close to me that would probably like to see that but it never happened.
part 2:
CW self harm, transphobiaBullshit. Why don’t you show the context?
Oh here’s the context for the transphobic comment too:
images:
spoiler
It was in this post about donald trump posting an image of Joe Biden tied up
You opened up with this, which is pretty clearly trolling.
Marcie responded with a similarly pointed comment that also got removed for being uncivil.
thread view:
Then you dropped your transphobic/kys comment in response to someone saying that Trump could get shot for treason but the democrats will never follow through. This is expressing frustration with liberals who talk a big game but when the chips are down take no action. Not sure what you were trying to accomplish other than being needlessly hostile.
Worth noting all of this is in the public modlog, anyone can look it up
This is just “removed by mod” . I’m not transphobic no matter how hard you want it to be real. Oh, and I actually went to see Chapo in Montreal a couple years back, before I understood who these people are. They kept making joke about how french Canadians are stupid and inferior, to an audience of 90% unilingual white males. Absolutely pathetic, it’s probably on youtube.
You asked for the context, click on the spoiler tag if you want to see the removed comment, here’s another link
I really don’t see how taking a shot at hexbear as being ‘95% guys’ is relevant, or anything other than being intentionally transphobic, but I look forward to your explanation.
Also I don’t care about shittalking chapo lol, pretty much every time I’ve listened to them (extremely infrequent occurrence) I’ve been annoyed by something.
OMG what? It’s the sentence about hexbear being a bunch of dude that’s suppose to be transphobic? I must be stupid because I failed to see how trans people are involved in this. I stand by what I’ve said, Hexbear is filled by a bunch privilege white guys that pretends to represent minorities they know nothing about. It’s where all the chapo community migrated after being banned on reddit, so basically some bros of the socalled dirtbag left and tankies.
4chan level bigotry, shocking.
Just editing this in to address the question, yes it is. That’s just being transphobic. If they say they’re trans they’re trans. You do not get to dictate what someone else’s gender is just because you disagree with their politics or because a podcast insulted French Canadians.
I agree that ‘ironic’ homophobia is still homophobia, and should be removed, just like ‘ironic’ misogyny and transphobia.
spoiler
his comment wasn’t ‘You’re gay’, but it was close
A meme this could be seen as referencing is this
you responded with this:
Going into past threads to respond about an unrelated grievance would get you a temp ban in a lot of lemmies, regardless how valid.
Here’s the transphobic part of the post of yours - the same one in the post above
spoiler
Hexbear has done many surveys at this point of the gender of its users (most recent one linked here) As of this last one cis people are in the minority, I don’t know why you would insert a comment like that if you weren’t trying to be transphobic.
Lol. The joke about shooting “a superiority complex” (3 feet above your head) is encouraging self-harm? This the probably the most told joke about French people ever, it was invented by Belgium. I haven’t met a single person from France that doesn’t find really it funny, and I’ve met more then you ever will. Maybe it doesn’t translate well, but it’s definitely a joke, no ambiguity here. On the other hand a loser calling me “Gay” for loving my daughter it’s clearly humor?? Fuck off lol. I’ve been bullied all my life, I’ve learned to stand up against this kind of “joke”. Maybe I’ve overacted but I will always show my teeth when it involves my daughter and homophobia.
I still haven’t seen my so-called transphobic comment, why don’t you just quote it?
BTW, you’re just confirming me that you .ml people are powertripping hardcore. I use to defend the instance but I will now gladly join the bashing. You people suck.
This the probably the most told joke about French people ever, it was invented by Belgium.
I’m not familiar with it, and I doubt many other people reading it got that either. It’s a little ironic that you’re this bent out of shape when other people don’t get your joke but at the same time can’t give other people the same deference.
I still think removing the homophobic comment -ironic or otherwise- was the right move, however you going into months-old threads to harass them about your current beef was also something begging for moderation.
I still haven’t seen my so-called transphobic comment, why don’t you just quote it?
I have, twice now, are you being intentionally obtuse? click on the spoiler tag if you want to see.
I’m genuinely shocked that people are upset with what you’re saying. Even if people believe the “95% of you are guys” comment isn’t transphobic and is just weirdly presumptuous, the rest is still pretty icky behavior.
It’s the reflexive hostility liberals have towards anyone calling out someone complaining about Hexbear.
Every fucking time.
It’s comedy that regularly writes itself.
hmm, I wonder why .ml dislikes .world so much. It couldn’t possibly have to do with us shitting on them so much.
hmm, I wonder why many other instances dislikes .ml so much. It couldn’t possibly have to do with them praising and spreading the propaganda of authoritarian governments so much.
It’s because they can’t delete posts on .world
