No one’s saying they’re not. But Down syndrome also predisposes kids to cataracts, hearing loss, heart disease, leukemia, thyroid problems, severe constipation, and gum disease. It’s a disorder that causes a litany of health problems, and it’s not fair to saddle a person with potentially life-threatening conditions on the grounds that many with the disorder are nice people.
I work with special needs adults. Your experiences, while valid, with many of those that arent so disabled that they actually can engage with society, do not represent those with more extreme versions of this disability.
Often they will never get to experience the fullness of life they could without. Basically, people with Downs who dont have caretakers with means are fucked pretty hard.
Of the 6 I interact with daily, I think they all would rather not have the disability, and 2 have said they would trade places with the guy in the wheel chair that has seizures sometimes, but is otherwise living a normal life.
I would agree with you on that as well. I do some volunteering with the special Olympics, have family members, etc. it’s like you said and in these cases they are able to interact with the general public, maybe have basic jobs, live in group homes, and so forth.
I also agree they are fucked without support. I am not advocating for more people to have the disease so much as I wish more people had the vibes of the population I’m referencing.
I think you have a super healthy view of this dilemma through your experience. As a person who has experienced the worst Down’s has to offer with a very close relative, i can’t imagine a happier thing they could have told my mother than, “your child doesn’t have to be born with down’s syndrome”.
Due to religion, terminating the pregnancy was never an option, so a set of cosmic dice was spun in how positive or negative this experience would be. Let me tell you right now, I wouldn’t wish my family’s experience on anyone, and that breaks me apart to say more than I’m willing to admit.
I kind of understand because I worry about it purely in my own case. I have severe ADHD and, overall, I really wish I could just function without it being a struggle every single day. But in my case and many others with my type of ADHD, its comorbidity with Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria makes me extremely empathetic. A lot of my friends over the years have told me that, when they need someone to truly understand them and see them and give perspective that resonates, they come to me first.
If someday, a doctor would be able to snip off some chromosomes and suddenly I’m cured, it would be positively life-changing. But I would hesitate. The emotional resonance that comes easily to me is something I hold dear to my heart. Would I Iose that part of myself? Would I care? I don’t know. I love that part of me, and while I wouldn’t necessarily be a worse person, losing that part of me means a lot of people that love me lose something they love about me too.
They become worse for having to interact with society the same way as everyone else. Most people are assholes. The specific population of people I know are awesome and I consider them better humans than most because society is fucked.
That is a compelling argument. I can’t deny society sucks. But in this case, should we not be promoting down syndrome? Wouldn’t it be better for everyone to have down syndrome? Do we have reason to believe that a society run exclusively by people with down syndrome would be better than other societies, or are the people you know with down syndrome better than the typical person because they receive a lot of care? These are earnest questions by the way, and not meant to be rhetorical.
Idk man, having down syndrome also gives you a much greater chance of things like heart defects. Life expectancy has improved recently to 50-60yrs old for them according to a quick search. I don’t think there’s a dilemma here at all. I wouldn’t want a disease that decreases my lifespan.
I agree. We should treat others differently. Case in point: several people trying to pick a flight with me about this.
Of course I’m not saying “we shouldn’t try to cure this disease.” Maybe I’m saying, “these people are 'Innocents ’ who don’t have to have the same interactions with society as we do, and in some ways that’s better because society is fucked.”
That’s a dilemma. The kids and parents not having the challenges is great, but also people with Downs are often some of the best humans to exist.
No one’s saying they’re not. But Down syndrome also predisposes kids to cataracts, hearing loss, heart disease, leukemia, thyroid problems, severe constipation, and gum disease. It’s a disorder that causes a litany of health problems, and it’s not fair to saddle a person with potentially life-threatening conditions on the grounds that many with the disorder are nice people.
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with that. Please read the other comments.
I work with special needs adults. Your experiences, while valid, with many of those that arent so disabled that they actually can engage with society, do not represent those with more extreme versions of this disability.
Often they will never get to experience the fullness of life they could without. Basically, people with Downs who dont have caretakers with means are fucked pretty hard.
Of the 6 I interact with daily, I think they all would rather not have the disability, and 2 have said they would trade places with the guy in the wheel chair that has seizures sometimes, but is otherwise living a normal life.
I would agree with you on that as well. I do some volunteering with the special Olympics, have family members, etc. it’s like you said and in these cases they are able to interact with the general public, maybe have basic jobs, live in group homes, and so forth.
I also agree they are fucked without support. I am not advocating for more people to have the disease so much as I wish more people had the vibes of the population I’m referencing.
I think you have a super healthy view of this dilemma through your experience. As a person who has experienced the worst Down’s has to offer with a very close relative, i can’t imagine a happier thing they could have told my mother than, “your child doesn’t have to be born with down’s syndrome”.
Due to religion, terminating the pregnancy was never an option, so a set of cosmic dice was spun in how positive or negative this experience would be. Let me tell you right now, I wouldn’t wish my family’s experience on anyone, and that breaks me apart to say more than I’m willing to admit.
Sending love
It’s fine and not at all contradictory to care for existing people with Downs and also work to eliminate the condition.
What a commendably gentle way to caution against that logical fallacy. 🙇🏼♂️💚
♥️
But how would them not having the disease make them worse people?
I kind of understand because I worry about it purely in my own case. I have severe ADHD and, overall, I really wish I could just function without it being a struggle every single day. But in my case and many others with my type of ADHD, its comorbidity with Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria makes me extremely empathetic. A lot of my friends over the years have told me that, when they need someone to truly understand them and see them and give perspective that resonates, they come to me first.
If someday, a doctor would be able to snip off some chromosomes and suddenly I’m cured, it would be positively life-changing. But I would hesitate. The emotional resonance that comes easily to me is something I hold dear to my heart. Would I Iose that part of myself? Would I care? I don’t know. I love that part of me, and while I wouldn’t necessarily be a worse person, losing that part of me means a lot of people that love me lose something they love about me too.
It wouldn’t, necessarily.
Then what the heck is your point? If they would not become worse for being cured of down syndrome, then what’s the dilemma?
They become worse for having to interact with society the same way as everyone else. Most people are assholes. The specific population of people I know are awesome and I consider them better humans than most because society is fucked.
That is a compelling argument. I can’t deny society sucks. But in this case, should we not be promoting down syndrome? Wouldn’t it be better for everyone to have down syndrome? Do we have reason to believe that a society run exclusively by people with down syndrome would be better than other societies, or are the people you know with down syndrome better than the typical person because they receive a lot of care? These are earnest questions by the way, and not meant to be rhetorical.
Sounds kinda biblical like eating from the tree of knowledge.
Idk man, having down syndrome also gives you a much greater chance of things like heart defects. Life expectancy has improved recently to 50-60yrs old for them according to a quick search. I don’t think there’s a dilemma here at all. I wouldn’t want a disease that decreases my lifespan.
they still can be.
I’ve known plenty of people with down syndrome that were abused and were some of the most vile people I’ve ever known.
perhaps they are the best because they are treated differently and we should treat everyone that way.
I agree. We should treat others differently. Case in point: several people trying to pick a flight with me about this.
Of course I’m not saying “we shouldn’t try to cure this disease.” Maybe I’m saying, “these people are 'Innocents ’ who don’t have to have the same interactions with society as we do, and in some ways that’s better because society is fucked.”