- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@lemmy.world
- trans@lemmy.blahaj.zone
- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@lemmy.world
- trans@lemmy.blahaj.zone
cross-posted from: https://discuss.online/post/12273255
I’ve only been on Lemmy a few days and I’ve already witnessed a lot of thinly veiled transphobia, anything from people dismissing the existence of trans people, to trying to claim we are predators. I’ve also seen people downvoted in the general communities for expressing trans support, or seemingly for no reason other than simply being openly trans or visibly queer. I know it’s an ongoing effort to moderate transphobia on Lemmy, and the fediverse as a whole. We have to also address mentions of thinly veiled transphobia and transphobic users. Transphobia isn’t just a differing opinion, it is a dangerous hateful sentiment which causes harm to vulnerable people and it needs to be addressed, at the instance and community level. We need to put in the effort to identify transphobic dogwhistles and language used by transphobes to eradicate this type of behavior from our communities and servers alike.
Some people will argue that the light stuff isn’t something to worry about, but that’s not true. This is a tactic they use to blend in with normies and make them think that nothing they are doing or saying is wrong. It’s what transphobic right-wing YouTubers and Facebook users do to avoid being banned for hate speech. We are better than these corporations though, Fediverse is run by communities and for the users, we should not let these things slide as easily as Corporations do, they’re in it to make money, we… We’re in it to create a community for the users. Part of that means kicking out those who don’t have all our best interests at heart.
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On Hexbear, transphobes are executed on sight.
I wish more instances would handle banning transphobes the way Hexbear does. No tolerance for Bigotry. Lemmy.world though seems to unfortunately be quite lenient about it ☹️
the votes arent completely tallied yet, but since its relevant to this discussion, take a look at this one result from a survey. 266 trans people unanimously agree that hexbear is a transgender inclusive space.
You love to see it. Great job organizing that, by the way!
Lemmy.world is quite right wing. A reasonably large proportion of insufferable folk. Better off with Hexbear if you’re a communist or BeeHaw is another option. Blahaj also an option.
Hope you find the right place for you.
The fediverse isn’t one thing and lemmy in particular is censorship proof, meaning there isn’t much you can do besides tailoring your own experience and filtering the feed to suit you. My instance doesn’t federate with lemmy.world or lemmy.ca because they are not well run instances without any oversight to their users and it’s mostly spam. My instance also fully disables downvotes because they are all spam as well.
They allow drama and harassment communities to be hosted on their instance.
Ah, I guess you’re referring to !fediverselore@lemmy.ca
Yeah, leaving something like that on their server demonstrates a lack of vision and maturity. If they are going to host a major instance they should be more careful about allowing toxic communities to use their facilities.
There is some value in such meta communities. On the other hand, they indeed require extra attention.
I very strongly disagree and defederate their server and their spam users for that reason. That only exists to harass and troll people and should not be tolerated. After some shitbag posted about me there I had waves of trolls go to my discord servers. The posts there are all extremely petty and it should be deleted.
Sorry to hear, I see where you come from.
On the other hand, being able to call out power tripping admins and mods is valuable. I guess maybe today !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com is better for that purpose
disables downvotes because they are all spam as well.
Not really, I come across posts from your instance sometimes and I downvote because I disagree. Though now I know that was futile.
I downvote because I disagree.
This is why downvotes are mostly spam lmao. They have more to do with how popular something this than the substance of the post. It is also impossible to distinguish good faith criticism and reactionary suppression.
Admins indeed can deal with these users, by deleting their content from their instances, and banning them from the site, if they are homed on that specific instance they get banned everywhere when that happens. So it can be dealt with but it takes work from our admins, and since these are communities run by real people and not monolithic corporations, we can speak up and make a difference. Reach out to these admins who are real people.
Admins can, I do on vegantheoryclub.org but lemmy.world and lemmy.ca will not. The admins don’t agree with your take and aren’t going to change their minds so the only recourse you actually have is to invest in and build your own server and federate with who you align with.
I’m sorry you’ve had to experience that transphobia on Lemmy. It is unfortunately common. And sometimes it even lurks as internalized transphobia in people that do not think of themselves as transphobjc. For example, there are Lemmy instances that actually promote chasers.
I believe all instances if transphobia should be called out and obvious examples should result in bans. Sometimes it is good to let people have a chance to accept criticism and retract but I am biased towards more often banning. Comments that are transphobic should also be removed.
Use the report button also to report transphobia, so we can get to it asap.
lol when are you gonna “get to” this one?
Really wish I could hear an explanation for keeping Nutomic around when there is blatant transphobia. Either a public apology or something along those lines, it’s clear Nutomic has made trans users feel unsafe and that goes against the stated anti-transphobia aims.
Underdeveloped take from Dessalines: the bourgeoisie love to promote bigotry while covering themselves in a cloak of progressivism
Also very reactionary of him to be bent out of shape over the whole “biological men competing in women’s sports” thing. Wonder what he thinks of the fact he shares that opinion with fascists?
Yeah, it seems like he still has some political development on this front to do to chase out some liberal brainstorms.
I think the guy’s heart is in the right place though, I think he just hasn’t done the legwork yet on studying how modern socialist states are moving on lgbt issues and why they’re doing so.
This is a weird take. Lgbt people shouldn’t need to be a useful pawn for socialism in order to be treated with respect. We deserve rights and respect because we’re as human as the rest of you theoretically. If someone ostensibly left-wing or socialist needs to read theory in order value my life and needs as a proletarian ally then they can necessarily be no ally of mine. More work needs to be done beyond tacit academic acceptance.
What other minority has to be vetted for their use before being welcomed into your so-called revolutionary project?
Honestly this is a really uncharitable reading of what I’m saying.
If someone ostensibly left-wing or socialist needs to read theory in order value my life and needs as a proletarian ally then they can necessarily be no ally of mine. More work needs to be done beyond tacit academic acceptance.
Except here it seems the guy does oppose transphobia generally but needs specific work done to advance his understanding of the issue.
And understanding social practice in other places to improve your own social practice isn’t academic. It is not an ivory-tower-ass thing.
What other minority has to be vetted for their use before being welcomed into your so-called revolutionary project?
Socialist projects are doing better on lgbt issues because they are recognizing the old bigotry against lgbt people for what it is.
LGBT people aren’t being used, except in the sense that discarding liberal bigotries in general helps make the system more robust.
I’m literally a trans person btw, I am approaching this from an angle of actually helping people remove their own bigotries. What is your solution here? What should dessalines do to get better on trans issues, concretely? If you’re having a hard time articulating your criticism, I would suggest the constructive criticism handbook.
I don’t really know the drama around this guy except The Screenshot everybody posts so I’m not going to act as if I care about his personal opinions, but I don’t like what I see as hypocrisy. There can be no allyship with someone who understands our experience purely through the lens of political opportunism. Empathy is the real prerequisite for decency here. There is a lot of talk on this guy and whether he updated his stance after that screenshot but I don’t think it matters unless he signals himself a understanding of lgbt people as human fools trapped in the same exploitation he is. And hell I don’t know, maybe he wrote that post awhile ago, and if he did good for him. But it rather seems like he lets people speak for him on this issue.
Following the discussion here as the LW thread got locked
Typical LW L. From the mods literally admitting to being anti-Marxist to failing to protect trans users, LW is sowing its own destruction.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. This is just typical liberal progression.
Yep, the mods have even openly expressed disdain for Marxism, referring to it as “a phase in college.” When you take a deliberately anti-Leftist stance, you become a welcoming space for the far-right, hence why instances that block Hexbear or Grad tend to be home to the most right-wing individuals on Lemmy.
instances that block Hexbear or Grad tend to be home to the most right-wing individuals on Lemmy.
Don’t take this as a hard rule. My instance blocks hexbear and we’re a bunch of anarchists, we just saw the inter-instance drama and don’t want all that noise. Our memes community is often a target of derision for lemmy.world liberals. We tolerate liberals there but we absolutely don’t tolerate right-wingers.
Not to be mean or anything but I’ve seen right-wing and “left” anti-leftism from slrpnk.net, hopefully y’all have cleaned that up more. I think an issue with Solarpunk is that ultimately it’s an aesthetic, not an actual strain of Socialism or anything, so it’s easy to coopt.
Again, typically blocking Hexbear and Grad is a negative when it comes to the ideas held by the userbase of an instance in my personal experience.
“left” anti-leftism
I mean, that sounds like your referring to anarchists criticizing authoritarian communism, which is certainly not something slrpnk admins and mods would have any interest in “cleaning up” given they are anarchists themselves. If you meant liberals then I did say that we tolerate them there, at least on the memes community. We believe in outreach.
I think an issue with Solarpunk is that ultimately it’s an aesthetic, not an actual strain of Socialism or anything, so it’s easy to coopt
That’s fair. Solarpunk is primarily an artistic movement, so it is vulnerable to co-optation in the same way that any artistic movement is. IMO socialists are in desperate need of a strong modern artistic movement and if we don’t want it to be co-opted we should be embracing it.
Again, typically blocking Hexbear and Grad is a negative when it comes to the ideas held by the userbase of an instance in my personal experience.
Perhaps it was an overreaction, I can’t say for sure because I think most of that drama played out before I joined lemmy. I have also never personally experienced right-wing anti-leftism on slrpnk.net so I might assume that we have cleaned that up.
I read a post earlier tonight from tumbler that made me uncomfortably aware that I am naive when it comes to dog whistles and other subtleties people use to spread their hate. It laid out examples of things people are saying, and explained why they’re bad.
I know I would find it helpful and educational to know where you’re coming from, and to see the examples you’re speaking about.
Sure I can provide some examples:
I just wish they wouldn’t force their gender and pronouns onto other people
Translation: Doesn’t believe trans people are valid and doesn’t think people should respect our preferred pronouns
I just think that they need to keep it to themselves and leave kids out of it
Translation: Doesn’t believe we should exist in public, that we are a threat to children by virtue of being transgender.
It’s important to protect women’s spaces
Translation: Trans women shouldn’t be allowed to use the same spaces cis women use
There’s also more subtle ones such as people referring to cis women as real women, or referring to the transgender movement as gender ideology. The first one is wrong because trans women are real women, and the second one is wrong because transgender isn’t a religion or organization like a church. They are calling it an ideology so they can pretend there is an institution to fight against, in reality transgender people just exist and want to live our lives.
Hexbear is easily the most trans-positive instance, and it isn’t close. Strictly anti-chaser, pro-trans, there’s even a cis/trans questionaire that shows trans and trans-questioning members outnumber cis members when put together.
Lemmy.ml’s trans community has fantastic mods, but unfortunately Lemmy.ml itself isn’t as protective of its trans users. I try to report transphobia when I see it, but I see a lot more transphobia on Lemmy.ml than I do on Hexbear.net, which is a symptom more of the userbase than the mods IMO.
I’d say “and it isn’t close” is a bit disingenuous when instances like beehaw and blahaj exist.
