They line up in front of a courthouse in southeastern France, from morning to evening, and have gathered in the thousands in cities across the country. They hold signs reading, “one rape every six minutes,” “not all men but always a man,” and “giving in is not consenting.”

They chant: “Rapist we see you, victim we believe you.”

Women across France are rallying in support of Gisèle Pelicot, a 72-year-old reluctant icon whose husband is on trial in the city of Avignon for systematically drugging her and inviting dozens of men, 50 of whom are now his co-defendants, into their home to rape her over nearly a decade.

The shocking case has sparked what many women in France call a long-overdue reckoning over “rape culture” and systemic sexism in the way the judicial system handles sexual violence.

  • rekabis@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    And yet, what no-one wants to face is the fact that women rape men as frequently as men rape women:

    And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).

    In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women.

    I mean, yes - let’s lock up convicted rapists. But if 50%of cross-gender rapists are women yet almost 100% of convicted rapists are men, there’s some seriously weapons-grade gender bigotry at play, there.

    A legal system that is truly based on equality should see about a 50/50 split of male/female rapists convicted, and for largely equal time served as well.

    • fne8w2ah@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      So basically, “not all men and not all women” should have been the slogan in the first place.

      • rekabis@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        So basically, “not all men and not all women” should have been the slogan in the first place.

        Yes. That is a very even and equal statement that properly balances the reality of the situation.

        But equality was never their goal. That’s why those who have rationally and logically studied the ideology call the practitioners female supremacists, and are likely to call themselves egalitarianists.

        • petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          2 months ago

          rationally and logically studied the ideology call the practitioners female supremacists,

          Wow. That was remarkably mask off. You watch a lot of Ben Shapiro, buddy?

          • rekabis@lemmy.ca
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            2 months ago

            Ben Shapiro is a moron. And so is pretty much anyone who has ever punted the “alpha male” narrative.

            What I do, exclusively, is listen to what “feminists” say, and compare it to not only reality, but also how any flip-side examples for men are perceived. From there it is clear that the ideology is one of gender supremacy. There is no other possible interpretation, because there is no equality in their objectives. Any “benefits” that men accrue from feminism are purely by happenstance and lucky accident, but the foundation and exclusive intent of any one incident has always been female-first and almost always to the intentional exclusion of men.

            • petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              2 months ago

              And what does that mean, you fill a document with feminist phrases and ctrl+v over every word ‘woman’ the word ‘man’? That is… wow, that is incredibly academic. I’m actually hit-stunned by how smart that is.

              • rekabis@lemmy.ca
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                1 month ago

                And what does that mean, you fill a document with feminist phrases and ctrl+v over every word ‘woman’ the word ‘man’? That is… wow, that is incredibly academic. I’m actually hit-stunned by how smart that is.

                If that’s the best you can come up with, then you are just as bad as Ben Shapiro.

    • bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net
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      2 months ago

      In the context of this post this is disgusting to bring up.

      This doesn’t have any bearing on what this old lady was put through.

      • Ifera@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        In the context of this comment section, and the image that was chosen to lead the article, it is not disgusting and it simply makes sense.

        She is a fucking hero, she is brave and she gives hope to us rape victims. But if on the same breath you praise her and the people who support her, and dismiss a fuckton of rape victims just because the perpetrators of their particular rapes were women, then that is bound to raise a significant level of discomfort and take away from what the story should be, giving support to the victim of The Beast of Avignon and all rape victims, encouraging them to come forward.

    • pyre@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I took a look at the CDC report. Those comparable numbers are only about the 12 months preceding the survey which is, while probably statistically significant, not the whole story. It’s interesting to see why there’s a jump in those numbers for the 12 months preceding, but otherwise if you look at lifetime numbers women are victimized at significantly higher rates than men.

      an estimated 19.3% of women and 1.7% of men have been raped during their lifetimes

      that’s being penetrated, I think it doesn’t include being made to penetrate, which is covered in other forms of sexual violence.

      side note: I don’t know how the article got numbers for “being made to penetrate” specifically, the CDC article doesn’t seem to specifically say it. maybe I skimmed it wrong. I only saw the 1.6% of men reporting “unwanted sexual contact” in the last 12 months, which is compared to the women reporting at 2.2% of women, which is while still almost 40% higher, closer than lifetime experiences which are estimated at 27.3% vs 10.8%. Guess which is which.

      An estimated 43.9% of women and 23.4% of men experienced other forms of sexual violence during their lifetimes, including being made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and noncontact unwanted sexual experiences.

      This includes being made to penetrate and other things, again if you can find where the 1.6% comes from please let me know.

      An estimated 15.2% of women and 5.7% of men have been a victim of stalking during their lifetimes

      this is interestingly one of the categories where it is not as close in the last 12 months: women’s rate double men’s. not central to my overall point but it is surprising because if anything I expected this to be closer than other categories, considering social media making stalking easier. just a note.

      here’s an interesting part about “always a man”:

      women are predominantly predated by men in all forms, but men are predominantly made to penetrate and coerced by women (I guess this is expected more than men would be doing this?), while penetrated predominantly by men (I guess obvious) and suffering other forms of sexual predation including stalking by a relatively even rate of men and women.

      That sounds like it all comes pretty close to “always a man”.

      • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        that’s being penetrated, I think it doesn’t include being made to penetrate, which is covered in other forms of sexual violence.

        Right, in many municipalities it’s impossible for a woman to be charged with rape for forcing someone to have sex with them through coercive means. Until that is no longer the case “men rape more than women” is like saying “you’re more likely to starve without food.” No shit, because definitionally woman legally cannot be charged with rape for raping.

        You see how that skews the data, right? Sure “it’s all men” if you don’t count the women, why would that surprise anyone?

        • pyre@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          those cases are not relevant here. the data we’re talking about is not skewed. they cover all these other situations independent of municipality. also these are not numbers on reported cases (they’re included in the study) but estimated actual numbers.

          • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            With how unlikely men are to report (or sometimes, they don’t even realize they have been raped), I’m not sure how they can accurately estimate.

            In any case, making it a gendered issue and lumping me, a victim, in with the perpetrators simply because I was born with a penis, and lumping my rapists in with the victims because they were born with vaginas, isn’t what I call “cool.” I’d much prefer if we made it a victims VS victimizers thing, rather than a men VS women thing, personally.

            Furthermore this whole “women can’t rape men” thing needs to be fixed. I simply will not have the conversation about “who rapes who more” until it is fixed, by acknowledging it as a legitimate law I am erasing my own experiences and enabling others to do so.

      • zaphod@sopuli.xyz
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        2 months ago

        Those comparable numbers are only about the 12 months preceding the survey which is, while probably statistically significant, not the whole story.

        How’s that relevant? It looks at one year and within that year the number of rape/made-to-penetrate victims is roughly equal for men and women. Unless there was something unusual happening that year or the same men are made to penetrate more often then women get raped, then if you extend the timeframe the numbers should change similarly for men and women.

        side note: I don’t know how the article got numbers for “being made to penetrate” specifically, the CDC article doesn’t seem to specifically say it. maybe I skimmed it wrong.

        From the 2011 study in the Results section:

        For men, the lifetime prevalence of being made to penetrate a perpetrator was an estimated 6.7% (>7.6 million men), while an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey.